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Old October 5 2013, 08:07 AM   #16
grendelsbayne
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

So basically, it seems likely that most of Starfleet would be ok without the UTs, but DS9 (and to a lesser degree, Voyager) would be screwed? (The Bajoran militia, having been fighting Cardassian opression for 70 years, seems unlikely to have had time to learn Federation Standard, and aliens like Neelix and Kes certainly never would have even heard of it.)
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Old October 5 2013, 04:54 PM   #17
Ln X
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

If non-humans are not speaking English then why are their mouths forming English words? I mean early on in DS9 Kira and the Bajoran Militia would know only Bajora and a bit of Cardassian. So the UTs would translate the Bajora to Federation Standard, but the mouths of the Bajorans would be speaking Bajora and not FS.

Also acoustically you would hear Bajora being spoken from the Bajorans and FS coming from the UT. That could get distracting pretty quick...
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Old October 5 2013, 05:01 PM   #18
Nerys Myk
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Ln X wrote: View Post
If non-humans are not speaking English then why are their mouths forming English words? I mean early on in DS9 Kira and the Bajoran Militia would know only Bajora and a bit of Cardassian. So the UTs would translate the Bajora to Federation Standard, but the mouths of the Bajorans would be speaking Bajora and not FS.
Because its a TV show and no one was speaking any language but English when it was recorded.
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Old October 5 2013, 05:37 PM   #19
Greg Cox
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

In "Space Seed," Khan explicitly mentions that "I thought I heard . . . English?"

I doubt that's the Universal Translator at work. Why would the UT provide an English translation for a Sikh from northern India?
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Old October 5 2013, 08:47 PM   #20
grendelsbayne
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Ln X wrote: View Post
If non-humans are not speaking English then why are their mouths forming English words? I mean early on in DS9 Kira and the Bajoran Militia would know only Bajora and a bit of Cardassian. So the UTs would translate the Bajora to Federation Standard, but the mouths of the Bajorans would be speaking Bajora and not FS.

Also acoustically you would hear Bajora being spoken from the Bajorans and FS coming from the UT. That could get distracting pretty quick...
But that's just the magic of UT's. The only time I remember a translator not entirely blocking out the original spoken words is the courtroom scene in TUC, which is 23rd century, and Klingon tech as well. Even on Voyager, where we can be guaranteed that Federation standard is entirely unknown, the officers have routine face to face meetings with entirely unknown aliens via the UTs without any distracting double-language acoustics...
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Old October 5 2013, 11:12 PM   #21
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Ln X wrote: View Post
If non-humans are not speaking English then why are their mouths forming English words?
Kind of goes back to my watching Star Trek in Spanish (which perhaps I should have expanded on), I'm use to the spoken words heard being different than the lip motions observed.

It would be the same with an conversation where the UT is in use.

Also acoustically you would hear Bajora being spoken from the Bajorans and FS coming from the UT. That could get distracting pretty quick...
There is a scene in DS9 where Sisko in his role as the emissary renders a blessing over a engaged/newly wed Bajor couple. He does this speaking the Bajorian language, this is specifically commented upon in the episode with Kira complimenting Sisko on his accent.

When Kira is talking to one of her fellow Bajorians, she is most likely speaking a Bajorian language, say during one of her conversations with Kai Winn.

Personally, I believe whole segments of the dialog in Amok Time is in Vulcan.

When Worf is aboard a Klingon ship, surround (so to speak) by other Klingons, he is speaking a Klingon dialect. Worf likely does speak either English or "Starfleet standard." And when speaking with his adopted family in private, the conversation could easily be in Ukrainian.

When Deanna and Laxanna speak out loud to each other ...?

Out of universe, yes these are actors speaking English.


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Old October 6 2013, 09:51 AM   #22
trash80
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
There was a episode of Farscape where everyone's translator microbes stopped working, none of them spoke any of the other's languages.
This seems like an obvious plot for a Star Trek episode, its strange how its never happened.
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Old October 6 2013, 03:55 PM   #23
Greg Cox
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

trash80 wrote: View Post
Unspeakable wrote: View Post
There was a episode of Farscape where everyone's translator microbes stopped working, none of them spoke any of the other's languages.
This seems like an obvious plot for a Star Trek episode, its strange how its never happened.
I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?
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Old October 6 2013, 04:12 PM   #24
Melakon
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?
Go for it! He's apparently learned enough English to read the signs and controls on board ship, so he'd have to use the computer to learn the language phonetically. Then it's just determining who his personal tutor would be. I can see how this could be frustrating for Neelix.
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Old October 6 2013, 10:07 PM   #25
iguana_tonante
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Melakon wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?
Go for it! He's apparently learned enough English to read the signs and controls on board ship, so he'd have to use the computer to learn the language phonetically. Then it's just determining who his personal tutor would be. I can see how this could be frustrating for Neelix.
Trust me, learning to read English and learning to speak it are two completely different endeavours.
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Old October 6 2013, 10:08 PM   #26
T'Girl
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?
Have it set within DS9 might be better than on Voyager. We know for a fact that the Ferengi don't speak English, now add Kira, Garak, some Klingons, a Vorta, a few Humans and put them on the Defiant or some other enclosed situation.

Mix in a dangerous time constraint and serve.

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Old October 6 2013, 10:13 PM   #27
The Wormhole
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Also, the Dominion characters speak their native tongues and is translated. We saw this when Dr. Bashir was working with the genetically enhanced misfits and they were watching a holorecording of a meeting with Weyoun. Half way through, they request the computer stop the translation and have Weyoun speaking his native Vorta language, which he must have been when the recording was made.
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Old October 7 2013, 01:18 PM   #28
Bad Thoughts
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
If non-humans are not speaking English then why are their mouths forming English words? I mean early on in DS9 Kira and the Bajoran Militia would know only Bajora and a bit of Cardassian. So the UTs would translate the Bajora to Federation Standard, but the mouths of the Bajorans would be speaking Bajora and not FS.

Also acoustically you would hear Bajora being spoken from the Bajorans and FS coming from the UT. That could get distracting pretty quick...
But that's just the magic of UT's. The only time I remember a translator not entirely blocking out the original spoken words is the courtroom scene in TUC, which is 23rd century, and Klingon tech as well. Even on Voyager, where we can be guaranteed that Federation standard is entirely unknown, the officers have routine face to face meetings with entirely unknown aliens via the UTs without any distracting double-language acoustics...
I don't think that the UT would be as passive of a technology as is presented for dramatic purposes. Inidividual UTs probably interface with the available technology around them to provide noise cancellation and acoustic projection/lensing where it's necessary. The user likely has the option of selecting how they are heard, perhaps preventing some language from being continuously translated or to provide an amount of privacy. Indeed, the user can probably select the volume at which they are heard, allowing them to speak more quietly than normal and not contributing to the overall acoustic pollution.
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Old October 7 2013, 01:55 PM   #29
MacLeod
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Nine of Four wrote: View Post
It would make sense that, in an effort to avoid accusations of favoritism, Starfleet would chose a language other the English, Vulcan, or Andorian, as those planets formed the Federation.
Well, short of inventing a new artificial language, someone has to be favored in this case, especially since 95% of the human population do not speak English as their first language, yet Star Trek has always been very cavalier with English as the default human language. If you can impose English on 7 billion humans, a few billions of Vulcans and Andorians should not be a problem.
Or maybe it was not a case of favourtism per say, rather one language (i.e. English) establsihed itself as the lingua franca/de facto language of at least Starfleet.
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Old October 7 2013, 03:26 PM   #30
iguana_tonante
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

MacLeod wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Nine of Four wrote: View Post
It would make sense that, in an effort to avoid accusations of favoritism, Starfleet would chose a language other the English, Vulcan, or Andorian, as those planets formed the Federation.
Well, short of inventing a new artificial language, someone has to be favored in this case, especially since 95% of the human population do not speak English as their first language
Or maybe it was not a case of favourtism per say, rather one language (i.e. English) establsihed itself as the lingua franca/de facto language of at least Starfleet.
I might not be deliberate favoritism, but in the end some people will end up being favored in any case. Also, languages don't establish themselves. People do.
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