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Old October 4 2013, 10:22 PM   #16
C.E. Evans
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
The implication is pretty clear, that nearly all of the countries today still exist, with their current names intact and a certain individuality.

The borders exist out of nostalgia and probably aren't remotely enforced or given much thought.
I think it's pretty much this.

Nations have been pretty much reduced to local townships, IMO.
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Old October 4 2013, 10:44 PM   #17
TheGoodStuff
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

I think some of you are overthinking this and missing the point.

Picard is from 'France' as is stated in the show....however that does not mean 'France' in the modern sense. It is simply a region, a geographical area. NOT an independent, autonomous body.

As David.Blue rightly says, many areas still exist and are referred to....but they are no longer part of the old body. For example, Bavaria was once a Kingdom....now it is merely a province.
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Old October 5 2013, 12:07 AM   #18
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
. . .Picard is from 'France' as is stated in the show....however that does not mean 'France' in the modern sense. It is simply a region, a geographical area. NOT an independent, autonomous body. . .
This is how I've always interpreted it, since the TOS days. The names are just easy to use descriptive references for the characters (and us) regarding former political boundaries within the one-world government.
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Old October 5 2013, 12:12 AM   #19
Bad Thoughts
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Not much can be read from toponyms: they get recycled and reused. Consider the following:

The Roman town of Londonum collapsed entirely, but was refounded in the 9th century. There is no continuity between Londonum and modern London

The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is not a nation dominated by the Massachusett Indians. Nor is Iowa dominaed by the Ioway.

Some names describe dominant geological features that would likely remain regardless of the political situation: Mississippi and Missouri, Rhineland.

Some names will fall into disuse, even if a continuity can be drawn between regimes, like Zaire.

ETA: many European cities have a "street of the Jews" where, in fact, no Jews live. It merely memorializes the location of the ghetto.
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Old October 5 2013, 03:07 AM   #20
oddsigve
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
oddsigve wrote: View Post
Sorry for nitpicking, but the continent is not called Australia. It`s called Oceania.
Sorry for counter-nitpicking, but the continent on which the country of Australia lies is called... Australia.

Oceania is a REGION that contains the continent of Australia and many surrounding island.
You`re right, thanks for clearing that up for me and I apologize to T`girl for false nitpicking
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Old October 5 2013, 03:17 AM   #21
oddsigve
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
oddsigve wrote: View Post
Sorry for nitpicking, but the continent is not called Australia. It`s called Oceania.
Sorry for counter-nitpicking, but the continent on which the country of Australia lies is called... Australia.

Oceania is a REGION that contains the continent of Australia and many surrounding island.
You`re right, thanks for clearing that up for me and I apologize to T`girl for false nitpicking
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Old October 5 2013, 11:23 AM   #22
JirinPanthosa
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

I tend to think that old countries retain some trappings of their old cultural identities even though there is a unified government.

Also I get the impression that the government is more a providing and protective entity than a constant restrictive force in people's lives.
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Old October 5 2013, 12:34 PM   #23
Bad Thoughts
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I tend to think that old countries retain some trappings of their old cultural identities even though there is a unified government.
If you grew up in an old French village, with medieval French churches, Baroque French houses and town hall, where bakers still make the traditional bread, brewers the traditional beer, and vinters the traditional wine, you might have some notion of what being French means. Certainly, not all aspects of cultural identity are created by and enforced from up top, but are drawn from local culture.

However, that doesn't mean the being French in the 24th century is the same thing as it does today, or that it did in the 17th century. There is a greater degree of homogeneity today than their used to be, and I suspect there will be less in the future.
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Old October 5 2013, 01:27 PM   #24
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

My take is countries do exist, but all of them gave up a certain amount of sovereignty for a world-wide government. In essence, you have the "United States of Earth," of sorts, and each nation is a state within the central world government.

So, it makes sense to me that two nations that so shaped world history still exist, just as Russia, France, Japan, and Brazil, other mentioned nations, do. It's just that by the 22nd century, those nations have learned to work together and formed a world government all nations are partnered in, rather than working alone and against each other. Basically, a utopia, where the UN actually works.
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Old October 5 2013, 07:33 PM   #25
Galileo7
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
My take is countries do exist, but all of them gave up a certain amount of sovereignty for a world-wide government. In essence, you have the "United States of Earth," of sorts, and each nation is a state within the central world government.

So, it makes sense to me that two nations that so shaped world history still exist, just as Russia, France, Japan, and Brazil, other mentioned nations, do. It's just that by the 22nd century, those nations have learned to work together and formed a world government all nations are partnered in, rather than working alone and against each other. Basically, a utopia, where the UN actually works.
Agree. United States of Earth/United Countries of Earth
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Old October 6 2013, 11:17 PM   #26
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
Picard is from 'France' as is stated in the show....however that does not mean 'France' in the modern sense. It is simply a region, a geographical area. NOT an independent, autonomous body.
Problem with that is, once France ceased being a political unit/country, how much longer would little Le Barre continue to be "French?" We seen in the past few decades where a country has ceased to exist, broken up, that the people fairly quickly stop identifying with the former large unit.

Just because a governing body is established at the world wide level, doesn't mean the countries that assembled it discontinue to be sovereign countries.

It all has to do with how much (and how little) United Earth is allowed to do. If UE's main duty is to speak for Earth on interstellar matters, and has few other abilities and responsibilities, it could be a fairly restricted administrative body.

Nothing says that UE actually can govern the entire surface of the Earth.

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Old October 7 2013, 12:55 AM   #27
Bad Thoughts
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
Picard is from 'France' as is stated in the show....however that does not mean 'France' in the modern sense. It is simply a region, a geographical area. NOT an independent, autonomous body.
Problem with that is, once France ceased being a political unit/country, how much longer would little Le Barre continue to be "French?" We seen in the past few decades where a country has ceased to exist, broken up, that the people fairly quickly stop identifying with the former large unit.
Most of those entities--Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia--were created late in the process of modernization when various allegiances to smaller nationalities had already been made. On the other hand, four decades of separation between eastern and western Germans created cultural divergences, but it did not undo the sense that they belonged to what should be a single entity. Would La Barre remain French? Franche-Comté is, in many respects, very Swiss, so I doubt that the disappearance of France as a political entity would make move any further in that direction. If their sense of Frenchness is drawn from their local circumstances and culture, then they will likely continue to identify their local culture as being French.
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Old October 7 2013, 10:46 AM   #28
Robert Comsol
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Galileo7 wrote: View Post
Agree. United States of Earth/United Countries of Earth
Although the "United Earth" insignia we saw in the TOS pilot episodes was not a reproduction of the United Nations but exclusively the United Americas.

Bob
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Old October 7 2013, 06:13 PM   #29
Merry Christmas
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

^ ¡ Viva el Imperio de las Américas !


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Old October 7 2013, 10:08 PM   #30
TheSubCommander
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Galileo7 wrote: View Post
Agree. United States of Earth/United Countries of Earth
Although the "United Earth" insignia we saw in the TOS pilot episodes was not a reproduction of the United Nations but exclusively the United Americas.

Bob
I don't recall that logo. Do you have a link to it? I only recall the Mirror Universe logo, with the Western Hemisphere, but that was sort of retconned with Enterprise's In A Mirror Darkly.
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