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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 5 2013, 09:13 AM   #1
MikeS
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Was Crusher Troi's boss?

...With Psychology/psychiatry being a branch of medicine and all.

Or were Troi and the whole counselling corps just a self-maintaining fad?
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Old October 5 2013, 09:21 AM   #2
od0_ital
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Obviously not, since Troi had a better seat on the bridge than Crusher did. If Troi were part of sickbay's medical staff, she would have had to give her seat to Picard's left for Beverly when she visited the bridge.
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Old October 5 2013, 10:05 AM   #3
Vanyel
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

She may fall under Beverley's staff, once she started wearing a uniform it was the medical colors. So maybe, her department was a part of Medical, but her position as Ship's Counselor put her on par with Beverly. Kind of like Operations would seem to fall under Engineering, but unless Geordi needed him, Data's position as Second Officer and Chief Science Officer put him above and on par with Geordi.
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Old October 5 2013, 01:54 PM   #4
C.E. Evans
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

I think that ultimately Picard was Troi's boss and that he was the only reason she on the bridge at all (I've always believed that on other Galaxy-class ships, that third chair may be filled by a different officer or there might not even be a third chair).

I also believe that the Enterprise's sciences division has many different departments--medical, stellar sciences, social sciences, biology, and so on--and each had its own senior officer in charge of it. Troi likely wore blue as a result of a background in psychology and that as ship's counselor, she also head of a small staff of junior counselors, IMO.
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Old October 5 2013, 02:05 PM   #5
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

^^ This. She always seemed to answer directly to Picard, not Crusher, and I always got the sense that Troi's role on the Enterprise was Picard's prerogative, and probably a unique position. While Troi was the ship's councilor, Troi was also an adviser to Picard, particularly in cases of diplomacy, and basically filled a dual role. Due to her empathic abilities, she was supposed to help Picard determine the truthfulness or emotional state of mind of the other side, etc. While other ships and starbases certainly had ships councilors, Troi being so high up in the command structure of the Enterprise is very unusual, and possibly unique.

Both Troi and Crusher were commanders, outside each others' chains of command, and thus were equals. In fact, both technically were in positions where they could relieve Picard of command, if warranted, due to medical reasons.
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Old October 5 2013, 02:19 PM   #6
Mojochi
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

I got the impression that her area was its own department aboard
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Old October 5 2013, 02:41 PM   #7
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Troi's job was to use her insight to give counsel to the captain when dealing with others, as essentially a profiler/advisor. Granted, these same skills also gave her insight to help her fellow crew mates with their personal problems, but this probably wasn't even a part of her actual job, but an unofficial sideline she engaged in, in her spare time. Her vocation was as an adsvisoe to the captain, while her avocation was "helping people".
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Old October 5 2013, 06:42 PM   #8
TheGoodStuff
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

I have always taken it that A councilor would be under the CMO command, however, Picard utilised Deanna not as a councilor but as a Betazoid while on the bridge.

As such, I think she held a dual role on board, due to her unique abilities. Fulfilling a medical role [as we see her councilling numerous crewmen] and as an advisor [due to her unique, racial abilities]

Thus, I assume this unique dual role affords her privelages that other councillors would not have: like sitting on the Bridge. Where people sit isn't important, I'd assume Beverley still outranks her...but has no need to actually be on the bridge, unlike Troi.
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Old October 5 2013, 09:33 PM   #9
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

TNG never treated Troi's counseling sessions as a form of medical treatment the way modern psychiatry does, they treated it like the pop psychology image of people just going into an office to have someone to whine to and talk out their emotional issues. And we never saw Troi prescribe any kind of medication, and she never appeared to have a medical degree. Her method of treatment was to keep the patient's dead husband's belongings until the patient realizes she's not over his death.

I got the impression Troi reports to Riker like a department head.
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Old October 5 2013, 09:53 PM   #10
Takeru
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

MikeS wrote: View Post
...With Psychology/psychiatry being a branch of medicine and all.
Psychiatrits are doctors just like cardiologists, neurologists etc.
Psychology is not medicine.

Vanyel wrote: View Post
She may fall under Beverley's staff, once she started wearing a uniform it was the medical colors.
She wasn't wearing medical colors, she wore science blue. Crusher was in charge of the medical staff (except for the nurses, wouldn't make much sense to have a doctor be their boss), not everyone in a blue uniform.
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Old October 5 2013, 10:07 PM   #11
Nerys Myk
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Takeru wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post
She may fall under Beverley's staff, once she started wearing a uniform it was the medical colors.
She wasn't wearing medical colors, she wore science blue. Crusher was in charge of the medical staff (except for the nurses, wouldn't make much sense to have a doctor be their boss), not everyone in a blue uniform.
Am I reading this wrong? Why wouldn't a Chief Medical Officer have authority over nurses, who are medical personnel? I'm pretty sure nurses are usually required to follow doctor's orders.
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Old October 5 2013, 10:38 PM   #12
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

For clarity's sake ...

"Counselor" is one who offers counsel, as in "the President's Chief Counsel."

"Councilor" (sic) is one who serves on a council, or in years past, "councilman."

Just a pet peeve. Carry on.
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Old October 5 2013, 10:47 PM   #13
Takeru
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Am I reading this wrong? Why wouldn't a Chief Medical Officer have authority over nurses, who are medical personnel? I'm pretty sure nurses are usually required to follow doctor's orders.
I don't know about other countries but here doctor's have no authority over nurses, Doctor's can issue directives for the therapy and they obviously prescribe medication which the nurse will inject or give to the patient, but nursing is its own profession, they work alongside doctors not for them.
I am a nurse and if a doctor tries to order me around he or she will regret that day even if it's the chief of medicine himself, because believe it or not, he's not my boss, we have our own "chain of command".
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Old October 5 2013, 11:10 PM   #14
Nerys Myk
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Takeru wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Am I reading this wrong? Why wouldn't a Chief Medical Officer have authority over nurses, who are medical personnel? I'm pretty sure nurses are usually required to follow doctor's orders.
I don't know about other countries but here doctor's have no authority over nurses, Doctor's can issue directives for the therapy and they obviously prescribe medication which the nurse will inject or give to the patient, but nursing is its own profession, they work alongside doctors not for them.
I am a nurse and if a doctor tries to order me around he or she will regret that day even if it's the chief of medicine himself, because believe it or not, he's not my boss, we have our own "chain of command".
Interesting. Though, by issuing directives for the therapy and prescribing medication which the nurse will inject or give to the patient, they're telling the nurse what needs to be done. Yes? Would a nurse do these without a doctor's authorization?

Still I would think a Chief Medical Officer would be in charge of all Medical personnel, with a head nurse reporting to them. I assume people in other medicals professions like dentistry,pharmacy, optometry and psychology would also be under the authority of the CMO.

Similarly, Spock is the Chief Science Officer, but his specially seems to be physics and computers. Still everyone in the sciences, be they physicists, geologists or chemists report to him because he is the CSO.
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Old October 6 2013, 03:46 AM   #15
Mojochi
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Takeru wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Am I reading this wrong? Why wouldn't a Chief Medical Officer have authority over nurses, who are medical personnel? I'm pretty sure nurses are usually required to follow doctor's orders.
I don't know about other countries but here doctor's have no authority over nurses, Doctor's can issue directives for the therapy and they obviously prescribe medication which the nurse will inject or give to the patient, but nursing is its own profession, they work alongside doctors not for them.
I am a nurse and if a doctor tries to order me around he or she will regret that day even if it's the chief of medicine himself, because believe it or not, he's not my boss, we have our own "chain of command".
That makes sense, but in this case it's more along the lines of a military medical unit, wherein the commanding officer is a doctor, like Col. Potter on M*A*S*H Beverly is a commander by rank & Ogawa is a Lieutenant in the same unit

A cool thing would have been to have a nursing corp. like the Army, & though the entire corp. of nurses on board would answer to the officer in charge of the medical dept. in matters such as away teams, disaster plans or what have you, the nurses, their duty roster, assignments, schedules etc... within the function of the ship's sickbay would be within its own department. That really would've been an excellent way to feature Ogawa, who was arguably the chief nurse...... Like Major Margaret Houlihan... on M*A*S*H. I keep going back to M*A*S*H
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