RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,352
Posts: 5,502,881
Members: 25,121
Currently online: 633
Newest member: MsMarrielle

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11

Frakes: Sign Me Up!
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 211 56.87%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 61 16.44%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 39 10.51%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 53 14.29%
I don't know. 7 1.89%
Voters: 371. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 4 2013, 08:49 PM   #316
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

So does anyone else remember when this thread was about whether or not it was a good idea to bring back the Prime Universe and NOT about complaining about either or both Star Trek (2009) or Star Trek Into Darkness?
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 08:56 PM   #317
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post

Plausible enough for the ship - not plausible for the film's continued characterization of Kirk as a man who actually deserves command. Because Captains who completely ignore the most basic rules of their profession and then try to keep their job by hiding and lying don't deserve command. YMMV.
Not a TOS or TOS movie fan, then?
I know Kirk's anti-authority history - but that Kirk stood up for his decisions and faced the consequences. He didn't try to sweep everything under the rug like a teenager hiding his playboys. An ability to think independently, even when that means questioning your own orders is clearly a desired quality in Starfleet captains (and rightly so, given how many insane admirals we've seen) - but when you turn that into Kirk ignoring his orders while at the same time casually trying to convince Starfleet he's doing everything by the book, that's basically saying that Starfleet doesn't even matter to him. Like its beneath him, because he clearly knows best in all things.

That's not the kind of personality you want in control of a starship.
You must hate Spock then, who on two occasions falsified orders to follow a personal agenda. Not to mention trying to kill his CO on at least two occasions! Why is he still in Starfleet?

I wonder if Kirk told Starfleet he disobeyed orders in "Amok Time"? Or did he just pretend he got the revised orders and then proceeded to Vulcan? He also agreed to hide Cochrane's where abouts and the circumstances of Hedford's death.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 09:08 PM   #318
BigKrampus
Rear Admiral
 
BigKrampus's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there's BigJake.
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
So does anyone else remember when this thread was about whether or not it was a good idea to bring back the Prime Universe and NOT about complaining about either or both Star Trek (2009) or Star Trek Into Darkness?
You mean, before post #7?

Kirk the Jerk wrote:
I voted I want it back. Into Darkness bugged me too much to vote anything else.
Reaction to the films is kind of unavoidably built into the question for a lot respondents, it would seem to me. Though I do feel that maybe the film discussion could use a break.

On the question of the thread, I did not vote in favor of the Prime Universe on the poll. Whatever problems there might be with the BadRobot films, they made the TOS setting relevant again. As primarily a fan of that setting (and someone who felt the Berman-era franchise had gotten stale and overcrowded) I can only see that as ultimately a good thing.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigKrampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 09:12 PM   #319
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post

Plausible enough for the ship - not plausible for the film's continued characterization of Kirk as a man who actually deserves command. Because Captains who completely ignore the most basic rules of their profession and then try to keep their job by hiding and lying don't deserve command. YMMV.
Not a TOS or TOS movie fan, then?
I know Kirk's anti-authority history - but that Kirk stood up for his decisions and faced the consequences. He didn't try to sweep everything under the rug like a teenager hiding his playboys. An ability to think independently, even when that means questioning your own orders is clearly a desired quality in Starfleet captains (and rightly so, given how many insane admirals we've seen) - but when you turn that into Kirk ignoring his orders while at the same time casually trying to convince Starfleet he's doing everything by the book, that's basically saying that Starfleet doesn't even matter to him. Like its beneath him, because he clearly knows best in all things.

That's not the kind of personality you want in control of a starship.
He did sweep things under the rug. From "Flashback"...

JANEWAY: You may be right. Nevertheless, I've been studying the Excelsior logs.

KIM: What do they say?

JANEWAY: Unfortunately, they don't say anything at all.

KIM: Nothing?

JANEWAY: It would seem that Captain Sulu decided not to enter that journey into his official log. The day's entry makes some cryptic remark about the ship being damaged in a gaseous anomaly and needing repairs, but nothing else.

KIM: You mean he falsified his logs?

JANEWAY: It was a very different time, Mister Kim. Captain Sulu, Captain Kirk, Dr. McCoy. They all belonged to a different breed of Starfleet officer. Imagine the era they lived in. The Alpha Quadrant still largely unexplored. Humanity on verge of war with Klingons. Romulans hiding behind every nebula. Even the technology we take for granted was still in its early stages. No plasma weapons, no multiphasic shields. Their ships were half as fast.

KIM: No replicators, no holodecks. You know, ever since I took Starfleet history at the academy, I always wondered what it would be like to live in those days.

JANEWAY: Space must have seemed a whole lot bigger back then. It's not surprising they had to bend the rules a little. They were a little slower to invoke the Prime Directive, and a little quicker to pull their phasers. Of course, the whole bunch of them would be booted out of Starfleet today. But I have to admit, I would have loved to ride shotgun at least once with a group of officers like that.

http://www.chakoteya.net/voyager/225.htm
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 09:17 PM   #320
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Perhaps they were underwater, and flying shuttles around beneath ash clouds, to keep Starfleet and their long-range satellites from seeing Kirk break the prime directive?
Finally we start explaining plot holes by making the characters look bad.
So, SOP for explaining anything in Trek?
__________________
- SeerSGB -
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 10:13 PM   #321
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Not a TOS or TOS movie fan, then?
I know Kirk's anti-authority history - but that Kirk stood up for his decisions and faced the consequences. He didn't try to sweep everything under the rug like a teenager hiding his playboys. An ability to think independently, even when that means questioning your own orders is clearly a desired quality in Starfleet captains (and rightly so, given how many insane admirals we've seen) - but when you turn that into Kirk ignoring his orders while at the same time casually trying to convince Starfleet he's doing everything by the book, that's basically saying that Starfleet doesn't even matter to him. Like its beneath him, because he clearly knows best in all things.

That's not the kind of personality you want in control of a starship.
He did sweep things under the rug. From "Flashback"...

JANEWAY: You may be right. Nevertheless, I've been studying the Excelsior logs.

KIM: What do they say?

JANEWAY: Unfortunately, they don't say anything at all.

KIM: Nothing?

JANEWAY: It would seem that Captain Sulu decided not to enter that journey into his official log. The day's entry makes some cryptic remark about the ship being damaged in a gaseous anomaly and needing repairs, but nothing else.

KIM: You mean he falsified his logs?

JANEWAY: It was a very different time, Mister Kim. Captain Sulu, Captain Kirk, Dr. McCoy. They all belonged to a different breed of Starfleet officer. Imagine the era they lived in. The Alpha Quadrant still largely unexplored. Humanity on verge of war with Klingons. Romulans hiding behind every nebula. Even the technology we take for granted was still in its early stages. No plasma weapons, no multiphasic shields. Their ships were half as fast.

KIM: No replicators, no holodecks. You know, ever since I took Starfleet history at the academy, I always wondered what it would be like to live in those days.

JANEWAY: Space must have seemed a whole lot bigger back then. It's not surprising they had to bend the rules a little. They were a little slower to invoke the Prime Directive, and a little quicker to pull their phasers. Of course, the whole bunch of them would be booted out of Starfleet today. But I have to admit, I would have loved to ride shotgun at least once with a group of officers like that.

http://www.chakoteya.net/voyager/225.htm
That's was Sulu, not Kirk.

And it was about the events in the timeframe of The Undiscovered Country, were both the Enterprise and the Excelsior were acting against official Starfleet orders anyways.

And the whole Flashback episode should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 10:37 PM   #322
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

In that case, why don't you go make us a nice list of all the episodes and movies that count in this discussion.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 10:45 PM   #323
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Judging from your signature, you seem to have the time to do so. I don't.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 10:50 PM   #324
BigKrampus
Rear Admiral
 
BigKrampus's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there's BigJake.
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

@King Daniel &c. The premise of the "Flashback" episode in Voyager is a virus hiding itself inside a series of fake "memory engrams" created to conceal its existence from its host. IIRC it turned out there was no record of the mission Tuvok "remembers" because the memory is false, not because Sulu actually falsified his logs.

So, Janeway's charming speech about the old days notwithstanding -- and it is telling that she thought that would be a plausible explanation -- the "memory" involved is probably not the counterexample you were looking for. A better one might be Captain Sulu lying to Starfleet in Undiscovered Country when he's asked to disclose the whereabouts of Enterprise. (We've discussed in various places that some of the writing flaws in the BadRobot films are really just exaggerated versions of tropes the movies had already used.)

Also, it'd be a treat if you could knock it off with the petulant snark.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig

Last edited by BigKrampus; October 5 2013 at 07:07 AM.
BigKrampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 10:53 PM   #325
Kelthaz
Rear Admiral
 
Kelthaz's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
In that case, why don't you go make us a nice list of all the episodes and movies that count in this discussion.
Perhaps any episodes and movies relating to the character in question? You made a mistake and thought that Janeway was talking about Kirk; admit it and move on.
__________________
"Who are you?! And how did you get in here?!"

"I'm the locksmith. And... I'm the locksmith."
Kelthaz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 11:08 PM   #326
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

While the log entry was Sulu's on Excelsior, Janeway's reply to Kim's astonished "You mean he falsified his logs?" makes it pretty clear Kirk was known for that kind of thing too.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 11:16 PM   #327
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

She was painting all 23rd Century captains with a broad brush.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2013, 01:14 AM   #328
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

In another episode (I think) Janeway stated Kirk and his fellow cowboys would all be drummed outta Starfleet in her time, because "Times were different"
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2013, 02:06 AM   #329
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I just watched TNG: Birthright were Worf lies to Picard about there being survivors of the Khitomer Massacre. How dare he conceal the truth! He's a Starfleet officer!
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2013, 08:20 AM   #330
grendelsbayne
Commander
 
grendelsbayne's Avatar
 
Location: Netherlands
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
You must hate Spock then, who on two occasions falsified orders to follow a personal agenda. Not to mention trying to kill his CO on at least two occasions! Why is he still in Starfleet?
I'm not sure exactly which examples you're talking about, but I don't remember any time when Spock disobeyed orders and then tried to hide it after the fact to avoid taking responsibility. Two other things that are relevant here: Spock eventually becomes a Captain, but is never shown as having a command of his own, and in regards to 'Amok Time', he was under the influence of a seriously mind altering biological process. You might as well hold everyone responsible for their responses to the Psi 2000 virus...

I wonder if Kirk told Starfleet he disobeyed orders in "Amok Time"? Or did he just pretend he got the revised orders and then proceeded to Vulcan? He also agreed to hide Cochrane's where abouts and the circumstances of Hedford's death.
Allowing Cochrane to live in peace is hardly the same as a captain trying to sweep his own flouting of all the rules under the rug.
grendelsbayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
prime timeline, prime trek

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.