RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,645
Posts: 5,428,084
Members: 24,811
Currently online: 422
Newest member: Damix

TrekToday headlines

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 196 56.32%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 57 16.38%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 38 10.92%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 51 14.66%
I don't know. 6 1.72%
Voters: 348. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 4 2013, 04:42 PM   #286
David.Blue
Lieutenant Commander
 
David.Blue's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Anyone who is a writer tends to have very strong feelings about what constitutes good and bad writing.
__________________
David.Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 04:55 PM   #287
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

David.Blue wrote: View Post
Anyone who is a writer tends to have very strong feelings about what constitutes good and bad writing.
I like to write for my personal enjoyment and don't see the point in going around and tearing down others work. If I like it, I tend to revisit it from time to time. If I don't like it, I tend to move on.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 05:09 PM   #288
David.Blue
Lieutenant Commander
 
David.Blue's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Well, that is fine. For you. But other writers might feel differently. In fact, seems dead certain others do. And it isn't as if we all don't go off on some subjects now and then. I've already said my piece with STID and frankly don't care to continue (although I might on specific subjects) but others want to do something different.

On the subject of the Enterprise going underwater--well it looked great, even if I personally couldn't see any reason for the starship to be underwater. Were the rest of the film better--if for example I ended up caring about the characters--I'd give that a nitpick. As it is, I see it as a smaller problem among bigger ones. Not the the flick wasn't a lot of fun to watch! It was! Or that it didn't have some really nice things in it! It did! But it fell short on the drama, on the building tension, on allowing me a moment to feel anything on behalf of anybody in the film. I could go blow-by-blow why I have that reaction, but don't see a reason to.

Bottom line, I'm not going to obsess over it. But I'm not going to get all hot and bothered because someone else does. At the same time, I wish those most upset about this one detail would calm down a bit.
__________________
David.Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 05:21 PM   #289
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Yeah, in all honesty, the ship-underwater business isn't the biggest of deals in the grander scheme of the film and certainly isn't a matter of "upset." It's just the specific example that argument happened to focus around.
__________________
It's got electrolytes!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 05:21 PM   #290
The Keeper
Commodore
 
The Keeper's Avatar
 
Location: Where reality ends and illusion begins
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Nothing against the shot, but there was no valid reason, and that makes it bad writing.

Even if you only connect cool images with a script, you can give every cool shot a valid reason.

Put the shot in the last act, for example. The Enterprise is chased by the Vengeance, and there seems to be no escape. So Kirk, being the unconventionally out of the box bad ass he is, comes up with the idea of hiding the ship for repairs where Marcus/Khan will never think about looking for them: on a planet, under water.

When the repairs are done, and Vengeance is in range, rise out of the waters for a surprise attack.

Not only is there a reason now, it also makes the scene important.


That works at least for me because the whole subplot in the first act was pointless imo. Kirk breaks the Prime Directive, gets demoted and five minutes of screentime later gets promoted again. You can cut the whole sequence out without changing a thing about the story.


...
BigJake wrote: View Post
Also: IMO, @JarodRussell has it exactly right.
Nope, and nope. While I appreciate that it "works for you" JarodRussell, it opens a different can of worms which require other script revisions and/or contrivance additions.

Remember the Vengeance can easily outrun the Enterprise, so how would you suggest She gets out of the cross-hairs long enough to get into the ocean? (without requiring changes to other areas of the script, pre-title card sequence excepted, of course)
__________________
The Keeper

Little known hit crime drama series on FX: The Bridge. It's crazy good!
The Keeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 05:28 PM   #291
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

David.Blue wrote: View Post
Well, that is fine. For you. But other writers might feel differently.
There's being critical of something and then there's beating a horse to death trying to sway the opinion of others.

Whatever issues some have with the movie, it's done and there's no changing it and saying that nine out of ten people are wrong for not seeing issues with the writing just reeks of sour grapes. Especially when no one can really define what "good writing" is. We get vague allusions to people who are having "conversations".
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 05:32 PM   #292
David.Blue
Lieutenant Commander
 
David.Blue's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Thinking about the specific subject of the thread (!)...

I'm wondering what the "prime timeline" means in real terms? Other than the relative number of Vulcans? If by PT you mean a continuation of the Berman-style Trek methinks the answer would be "No." My own impression (and this is just my own) remains that fans and audience en masse want a new direction.

But this does not preclude accepting the events of TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT as canon. Just that we want a new storytelling style.
__________________
David.Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 05:36 PM   #293
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Imminent Anterior Aneurysm wrote: View Post
While I appreciate that it "works for you" JarodRussell, it opens a different can of worms which require other script revisions
Oh, any large change to a script will require other revisions, I didn't think Jarod was claiming you could just cut the sequence out of one place and drop it in another. The idea is moving in the right direction because the problems it raises are soluble.

No matter how fast the Vengeance is, for example (and this problem is particularly easy to solve if, as Abrams has clearly done and many an SF production before him has done, you've decided that the ships will move at the Speed of Drama), there's still a lag -- apparently long enough to cover most of the distance between Kronos and Earth -- between embarking on the chase and catching-up that could be used to hide the ship. The Enterprise wings around the corner of a moon in the outer system and the pursuing Vengeance find she's "disappeared."

(This of course can only happen if Kirk and company already know about the Vengeance's "trans-warp" technology... which provides a way to solve the other small problem of why Khan doesn't think to tell anyone about that until the Enterprise has been caught and very nearly blown out of space and Khan along with it. On this version of things, Khan mentions it upfront... potentially another improvement depending on how it's handled.)

David.Blue wrote:
If by PT you mean a continuation of the Berman-style Trek methinks the answer would be "No." My own impression (and this is just my own) remains that fans and audience en masse want a new direction.
Certainly true for me. The concept behind the Trek reboot is solid.
__________________
It's got electrolytes!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 05:37 PM   #294
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

David.Blue wrote: View Post
But this does not preclude accepting the events of TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT as canon. Just that we want a new storytelling style.
I think that you have to simply let all that go. I want the next show-runner to have total freedom to place the show in the 28th century with the Eugenics Wars happening in the 23rd and the first warp flight happening in the 25th, if he/she so desires.

Carrying over continuity from the old series would just shackle the new creative team to something that has nothing more to offer creatively.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 05:56 PM   #295
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Perhaps they were underwater, and flying shuttles around beneath ash clouds, to keep Starfleet and their long-range satellites from seeing Kirk break the prime directive?
Finally we start explaining plot holes by making the characters look bad.
Breaking a dumb rule and saving a planet makes them look bad?
BigJake wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Perhaps they were underwater, and flying shuttles around beneath ash clouds, to keep Starfleet and their long-range satellites from seeing Kirk break the prime directive?
Yeah, you see, when you have no way to explain something our supposed-heroes have done except to speculate that maybe they're hiding their chicanery from their own command, do you see how maybe that should tell you something?
That they WERE keeping it from their own command? That's part of the movie, and what I said logically follows from that.
Now, can someone explain why the Federation Holoship was underwater in Insurrection when it had a cloaking device as well??
And when you have to resort to saying "Insurrection [not exactly the most highly-regarded of Trek films] sort of did it too, so it must be okay," shouldn't that also tell you something?
That there is a precedent.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 06:01 PM   #296
The Keeper
Commodore
 
The Keeper's Avatar
 
Location: Where reality ends and illusion begins
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
Imminent Anterior Aneurysm wrote: View Post
While I appreciate that it "works for you" JarodRussell, it opens a different can of worms which require other script revisions
The Enterprise wings around the corner of a moon in the outer system and the pursuing Vengeance find she's "disappeared."
Not very original, First Contact used a moon to hide the Enterprise from the Vulcans. Besides that, they didn't know the Vengeance was coming until it was already too late.

I hope you have something better than that, JerodRussell...
__________________
The Keeper

Little known hit crime drama series on FX: The Bridge. It's crazy good!
The Keeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 06:04 PM   #297
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Imminent Anterior Aneurysm wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Imminent Anterior Aneurysm wrote: View Post
While I appreciate that it "works for you" JarodRussell, it opens a different can of worms which require other script revisions
The Enterprise wings around the corner of a moon in the outer system and the pursuing Vengeance find she's "disappeared."
Not very original, First Contact used a moon to hide the Enterprise from the Vulcans. Besides that, they didn't know the Vengeance was coming until it was already too late.

I hope you have something better than that, JerodRussell...
Sounds like something lifted straight from The Wrath of Khan.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 06:05 PM   #298
grendelsbayne
Commander
 
grendelsbayne's Avatar
 
Location: Netherlands
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
David.Blue wrote: View Post
Well, that is fine. For you. But other writers might feel differently.
There's being critical of something and then there's beating a horse to death trying to sway the opinion of others.

Whatever issues some have with the movie, it's done and there's no changing it and saying that nine out of ten people are wrong for not seeing issues with the writing just reeks of sour grapes. Especially when no one can really define what "good writing" is. We get vague allusions to people who are having "conversations".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that *from the moment* any one here ever saw any piece of Star Trek, it was already done and beyond changing?

Why is there some sort of statute of limitations on criticism of a film that only came out this year, but people who want to keep discussing what the 'best' episode was of a series that's been off the air for decades are just A-OK?

Everyone who is here is a Star Trek fan, interested in discussing Star Trek. That doesn't come with any kind of obligation to always be positive or to just never discuss the things you didn't like. This 'beating a dead horse' argument (which I've seen used several times now) mainly comes across to me as saying 'I think you're wrong, so shut up'. If those who disagree with the film's critics are tired of defending the film from the same arguments, the obvious solution is to just stop participating in that discussion. Not to go on and on about beating dead horses, while still participating in a discussion which you apparently don't want to be in.
grendelsbayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 06:06 PM   #299
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Imminent Anterior Aneurysm wrote: View Post
Not very original, First Contact used a moon to hide the Enterprise from the Vulcans.
Actually the "hiding behind / in a moon" device dates back to The Wrath of Khan. (Extra TWOK reference points!)

Besides that, they didn't know the Vengeance was coming until it was already too late.
In point of fact I did mention and address that, you may want to re-read.
__________________
It's got electrolytes!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 06:06 PM   #300
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

That we're not spoon-fed a good reason for the ship being underwater doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If you believe Our Heroes have any idea what they're doing then it seems reasonable to assume that they had a good reason for doing what they did.

If you don't believe Our Heroes had any idea what they were doing, then Pike was right to call Kirk out on his recklessness in any case, but since we don't know what led up to the E being underwater in the first place, we're not exactly in a position to critique the decision.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
prime timeline, prime trek

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.