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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 18 2013, 04:47 AM   #16
Christopher
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

^And what's wrong with that? I demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!
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Old September 18 2013, 04:55 AM   #17
drt
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Voyager-6 was equipped with an early impulse engine not too unlike those used on the DY-100 ships of that time. It was able to quickly overtake all five of the five previous Voyager probes prior to its disappearance.
I like that idea.

Also, I always figured that in the ST universe there is a black hole lurking somewhere near the Solar System, as indicated by the "black star" encountered in Tomorrow Is Yesterday.
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Old September 18 2013, 05:07 AM   #18
Nerys Myk
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Sran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
At the time, the timeframe of ST hadn't been locked down yet. Looking at it retroactively, it clearly doesn't fit what's now been established about the chronology, but it's easy enough to assume that Decker's memory of historical dates was imperfect and he misspoke.
Right. The first time Star Trek is actually stated to take place in the twenty third century is in TWOK.

--Sran
Though IIRC, in The Making of Star Trek, Roddenberry often used the 23rd Century as a reference point when talking about the future. So it's interesting that it was chosen to be the setting of Star Trek in TWOK.
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Old September 18 2013, 03:04 PM   #19
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

drt wrote: View Post
Also, I always figured that in the ST universe there is a black hole lurking somewhere near the Solar System, as indicated by the "black star" encountered in Tomorrow Is Yesterday.
In my Department of Temporal Investigations novels, I establish that the "black star" is indeed the black hole that V'Ger fell through.

And if anyone's wondering, yes, it is possible that a dormant black hole could go undetected if it were close to the Solar System. With nothing falling in, no accretion disk, it'd just be, well, black. The only ways to detect it would be, one, if we saw it lensing the light of a star or galaxy it passed in front of -- which would require a lot of luck -- or two, by its gravitational effect on other bodies such as comets, but we know little enough about the orbits of Kuiper Belt comets that it would be hard to tell whether something's perturbing them.
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Old September 18 2013, 03:36 PM   #20
Robert Comsol
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Although many TOS quotes suggest 200 years from now, here is one from "The Trouble with Tribbles" that could suggest otherwise:

SPOCK: Undeveloped. Sherman's Planet is claimed by both sides, our Federation and the Klingon Empire. We do have the better claim.
CHEKOV: The area was first mapped by the famous Russian astronomer Ivan Borkoff almost two hundred [years ago?!?]
KIRK: John Burke.
CHEKOV: Burke, sir? I don't think so. I'm sure it was
SPOCK: John Burke was the Chief Astronomer at the Royal Academy in old Britain at the time.

Hopefully Chekov wasn't referring to "parsecs"

Bob
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Old September 18 2013, 03:47 PM   #21
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
They should have taken a hint from TNG, which didn't take place exactly 400 years in the future of its broadcast.
I think initially they did, hence D. C. Fontana's line from "Farpoint" that Data graduated "Class of '78."
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Though IIRC, in The Making of Star Trek, Roddenberry often used the 23rd Century as a reference point when talking about the future. So it's interesting that it was chosen to be the setting of Star Trek in TWOK.
Which makes the indirect references to the 22nd century and then to a much later time than the 23rd century the more puzzling.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:56 PM   #22
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Maybe they simply edited out the following line:

Decker: "Voyager 6. This was launched over 300 years ago!"

Ilia: "Incorrect, Decker Unit. 278.28234234 ---"
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Old September 18 2013, 11:01 PM   #23
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
He meant 300 Deltan years
Which, per my DTI calendar notes, would be 208.2 Earth years, or 2065. Plenty of time!
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Old September 26 2013, 12:21 AM   #24
Mr. Comic Book
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
At the time, the timeframe of ST hadn't been locked down yet. Looking at it retroactively, it clearly doesn't fit what's now been established about the chronology, but it's easy enough to assume that Decker's memory of historical dates was imperfect and he misspoke.
Right. The first time Star Trek is actually stated to take place in the twenty third century is in TWOK.

--Sran
Though IIRC, in The Making of Star Trek, Roddenberry often used the 23rd Century as a reference point when talking about the future. So it's interesting that it was chosen to be the setting of Star Trek in TWOK.
Publicity materials for The Motion Picture called it "a 23rd-century odyssey." So the period had already been established as Trek's era. Exactly when in the 23rd century...well, they still hadn't pinpointed it.
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Old September 26 2013, 12:57 AM   #25
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

^The period had been established in secondary materials, but it wasn't explicitly stated in a canonical production itself until TWOK.
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Old September 29 2013, 05:27 PM   #26
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Decker: "Voyager 6. This was launched over 300 years ago!"

Ilia: "Incorrect, Decker Unit. 278.28234234 ---"
At which point the "Ilia unit" is cut off as Decker shows it his pimp hand.
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Old September 29 2013, 08:11 PM   #27
Maurice
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

^^^And broke his hand. Remember when Bones tries to grab and move it/her?
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Old October 4 2013, 02:00 PM   #28
Mytran
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Rounding off, up or down large numbers is not a problem when they are given as a general description. Hence, "2 centuries" or even "20 years ago" could easily be a few above or below those figures.

However, more precise numbers given by characters with a definite point to prove are less easy to ignore - why would Khan say "15 years" if he could say "16" or "18" or "20"?

With the TMP situation, Decker clearly says "over three hundred years ago" so it really can't be any less than that. Unless, as someone upthread has postulated, he was just really lousy with history? This is the "old world calendar" we are talking about, not a Stardate to be seen!

P.S.
Maybe Voyager 6 fell into a black hole after being swept along by one of those magnetic storms that captured the S.S. Valiant?
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Old October 4 2013, 02:17 PM   #29
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Mytran wrote: View Post
However, more precise numbers given by characters with a definite point to prove are less easy to ignore - why would Khan say "15 years" if he could say "16" or "18" or "20"?
The fix Greg Cox used in To Reign in Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh was that Ceti Alpha V's year was 1.2 times as long as an Earth year, so it was 15 local years and 18 standard years.


With the TMP situation, Decker clearly says "over three hundred years ago" so it really can't be any less than that. Unless, as someone upthread has postulated, he was just really lousy with history?
Or just ordinarily lousy with history. Plenty of people don't remember how long ago specific things happened. And one space probe getting lost centuries ago isn't a major historical event like First Contact or the founding of United Earth, just a bit of science-history trivia. You probably remember when Sputnik 1 launched or when Neil Armstrong took one small step, but do you remember when Venera 7 became the first probe to land on Venus?
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Old October 4 2013, 03:52 PM   #30
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Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Christopher wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
However, more precise numbers given by characters with a definite point to prove are less easy to ignore - why would Khan say "15 years" if he could say "16" or "18" or "20"?
The fix Greg Cox used in To Reign in Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh was that Ceti Alpha V's year was 1.2 times as long as an Earth year, so it was 15 local years and 18 standard years.

The problem with Greg's fix is that, if I remember correctly, Kirk independently uses the 15 year figure in TWOK.
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