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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old October 3 2013, 07:18 PM   #16
billcosby
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

Season 3 will blow your mind. It's important Trek, dammit!
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Old October 3 2013, 07:35 PM   #17
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I don't think seasons one and two are bad: they are more like middle of the road TNG. There are some stories that would have been pretty good as part of another program, but instead highlighted how DS9 wasn't yet on solid ground. Nonetheless, there are about 12-16 good episodes that the rest of the series will be built on, particularly those that establish longterm relationships with Cardassians.
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Old October 3 2013, 07:44 PM   #18
Lindley
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

The great strength of DS9 was its stationary setting (no pun intended). TNG kept flying off on new adventures every week; DS9, but nature, was forced to keep revisiting the same themes, races, and storylines a lot more often.

Once the writers began to embrace this rather than trying to write alien-of-the-week tales, the show really improved.
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Old October 3 2013, 10:34 PM   #19
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I see Kira at the beginning as somebody who sees the Federation as another occupying force. So it's not be hostile toward everyone, it's directed at the Federation and Cardassia. In her mind at the beginning of the episode, all large foreign powers are the same. It's through her interaction with humans in the first season that she really learns the Federation isn't going to do anything to Bajor against Bajor's will or make them into a puppet state.

I do think TNG and DS9 are very similar series, or at least more similar to each other than any other two Trek series. TNG's more optimistic and idealized, DS9's more socially realistic, but the two shows have pretty much the same story logic.
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Old October 4 2013, 04:18 AM   #20
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

Hey guys.

All good points. I just finished watching the Garak episode.

I remember the first time I saw it, it looked like Garak was ganging up on Bashir (like a lion ganging up on a mouse).

This time around it didn't seem so one sided for some reason.

As for Kira as a character, sure I understand what you guys are saying, and I completely agree. The problem it seems to me, is that Nana Visitor did not understand how to give that character some nuance.

If you ever see people who have PTSD, they tend to have short bursts of anger, but mixed in with other things, like paranoia and fear, etc etc.

So far, it seems that Nana was being told that "This character has suffered a great deal! amp up that anger to 11!!" and the way she does it is so forced.

I agree that S1 TNG acting was pretty bad as well, but honestly, Patrick Stewart carried that show for the first 2 seasons. Riker and Troi never improved either, they just became Frakes and Sirtis for most of the series.

Rene Auberjonois (sp?) is the gem so far. He's an excellent actor in a character that for me was completely wasted in potential.

We'll see how things roll along. My dad so far is liking it. I had him see all the Cardassian and Bajoran TNG episodes to prime him for the whole Cardassian angle.

Edit: I forgot Armin Shimerman (sp?) deserves props as well. I liked his character the last time round. He's the thief with a heart character.
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Old October 4 2013, 04:39 AM   #21
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
As for Kira as a character, sure I understand what you guys are saying, and I completely agree. The problem it seems to me, is that Nana Visitor did not understand how to give that character some nuance.

If you ever see people who have PTSD, they tend to have short bursts of anger, but mixed in with other things, like paranoia and fear, etc etc.

So far, it seems that Nana was being told that "This character has suffered a great deal! amp up that anger to 11!!" and the way she does it is so forced.
The DS9 bible, quote at Memory Alpha:
Major Kira, a former major in the Bajoran underground. Kira is now an outspoken critic of the provisional government. Having fought for freedom all her life, it has angered her to see the older leaders throw it all away through their petty dissensions. She has been trying without success to reach the Kai herself to air her grievances. It is very possible she was sent by the government to be the Bajoran administrator at the space station simply to get her outspoken voice out of ear shot. Kira loathes the Cardassians. She committed atrocities against them in the name of freedom, some of which bother her. But others in the Bajoran underground begin a new wave of terrorism and she is forced into a moral quandary about tracking them down and bringing them to justice. Former terrorists consider her a turncoat.
I don't see anything that would suggest she should, let alone does, have PTSD.
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Old October 4 2013, 04:47 AM   #22
Tosk
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
As for Kira as a character, sure I understand what you guys are saying, and I completely agree. The problem it seems to me, is that Nana Visitor did not understand how to give that character some nuance.

If you ever see people who have PTSD, they tend to have short bursts of anger, but mixed in with other things, like paranoia and fear, etc etc.
Why can't Nerys simply be an angry woman? I never thought she had PTSD, only that she is (understandably) angry in general.

One of the things I love about DS9 is that the characters actually do evolve over time. I'm betting you'll come to like Nerys during later seasons.

Nuance? Let's see how you feel after Progress and Duet.
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Old October 4 2013, 04:48 AM   #23
Avro Arrow
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

GalaxyX wrote:
Could I become a Niner?
You could, as long as you remember to fill out the application in triplicate, and remit your registration fee in full. No post-dated cheques, please.



Seriously, though, DS9 is by far my favourite of the 24th century shows. I'll just echo what everyone else has said... it gets better! There were some good S1 episodes (I recall Duet being a particular standout) but the show *really* picks up in later seasons. (And the less said about season one's Move Along Home, the better! You may just want to move along past it. )

So hang in there, and enjoy the ride!
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Old October 4 2013, 05:11 AM   #24
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

When those first few early scripts were being written, the roles hadn't even been cast yet. The only one the writers really had a lock on from the beginning was Colm Meaney's O'Brien. Once the rest of the cast was assembled, writers and actors gradually found their voices. It happens a lot with any series that isn't put together for a specific star.
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Old October 4 2013, 08:56 AM   #25
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I've said many times before that I think Visitor is the Trek actor who improved most, technically, over the course of their series run.
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Old October 4 2013, 03:42 PM   #26
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

Tosk wrote: View Post
I never thought she had PTSD, only that she is (understandably) angry in general.
Plus PTSD is a hu-mon disorder, possibly not bajoran.

Cthulurok wrote:
I've said many times before that I think Visitor is the Trek actor who improved most, technically, over the course of their series run.
To me, Visitor was very consistent. Her character loosened up because she had quite an arc, but her performance as an actress was spot-on from the start. I thought Farrell was most improved overall through the series, both her character and her acting. Avery Brooks also seemed to be more comfortable with his character once he was given the freedom he needed with his hair.

Probably the most consistent actor/character was Colm Meaney. His acting style reminded me a lot of DeForest Kelley. He also had the benefit of being an established character already, although I have a feeling he would have played O'Brien the same way even if he was a new character at the beginning of the series.
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Old October 4 2013, 03:58 PM   #27
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

Tosk wrote: View Post
Why can't Nerys simply be an angry woman? I never thought she had PTSD, only that she is (understandably) angry in general.
That was how I always saw her. She was strong-willed, opinionated and never willing to back down and tow Sisko's line without an arguement in the beginning. The dynamic between these two was always great to watch, and is set up so nicely in "Emissary". I like how it evolves over time to where there is a solid bond of trust between them.

Tosk wrote: View Post
One of the things I love about DS9 is that the characters actually do evolve over time. I'm betting you'll come to like Nerys during later seasons.
Of all Trek DS9 has the best character development. They actually go places rather than stagnating like what happened on VOY (seriously, the writers/producers of VOY should have been taking notes).

Tosk wrote: View Post
Nuance? Let's see how you feel after Progress and Duet.
Kira gets some of the must heart-wrenching stories and well as some of the most powerful, all of which help to mould her over the series.

For me, Kira is probably one of the best characters in all of Trek. She is a great example of how a strong woman should be written and portrayed. If I wasn't so sure she could whoop my ass I'd almost go straight for her
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Old October 4 2013, 06:19 PM   #28
R. Star
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

Really the season 1 episode I show people to win them over is Duet. A powerful episode on so many levels and if you're not gonna like that, chances are you wouldn't the rest of the series anyways.
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Old October 4 2013, 09:18 PM   #29
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

It would be believable if Kira had PTSD but I never saw any sign of that in the series. Just, in season one she was still in a trench mentality. The first time you see her kind of coming down from that and rediscovering her peacetime self was in Battle Lines when she breaks down to Opaca.
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Old October 4 2013, 10:28 PM   #30
BruntFCA
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I didn't really like Kira that much in the beginning either, but she really grew on me and became the best written female character in Star Trek IMO.
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