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Old October 2 2013, 07:04 PM   #121
JarodRussell
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Especially the computer virus is something I don't think of as stupid. All modern computer technology was based on the technology found in the alien ship. That's why the aliens were able to use Earth satellites to begin with. They hacked into those satellites as well. And Goldblum found the hacking signal and was able to make sense of it. And the virus was a combined effort of Goldblum, who made that key discovery, and the area 51 scientists who had analyzed this technology for 50 years. So basically I imagine the "virus" as a reverted version of the signal hidden in the satellite communication. Plus some further technobabble to lower the shields. It's not that stupid.

I believe either the extended version or the novelization goes into details about that as well.

And as for the President, who used to be a combat pilot, returning to fly when they badly need pilots and are so desperate that they even recrute alcoholics... why not? A dead President can still be replaced, IF the battle was won. But at first they had to win it.
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Old October 2 2013, 07:12 PM   #122
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

What's stupid about the computer virus is that as advanced as the aliens are, you'd expect them to have computer security so advanced that humans couldn't hack it.

But I'm with Harvey, ID is a fun film, and it's flaws don't really diminish that.

Personally, I think that the flaws sorta enhance the overall experience, because their presence is a declaration that the film doesn't intend to be too pretentious.
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Old October 2 2013, 07:28 PM   #123
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

My only cringe worthy moment (other than some of the Randy Quaid subplot) is the President's speech to rally the troops... It's used and used and used in so many movies... Done right (see Matrix II and Henry V) it captures a moment in time and you really feel it.. Done poorly (ID4 and Pacific Rim) and it amounts to scene chewing cheesiness..

I really enjoy ID4 and LOVE Pacific Rim, but those moments bug me... Just my opinion of course...
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Old October 2 2013, 09:23 PM   #124
Emh
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Especially the computer virus is something I don't think of as stupid. All modern computer technology was based on the technology found in the alien ship. That's why the aliens were able to use Earth satellites to begin with. They hacked into those satellites as well. And Goldblum found the hacking signal and was able to make sense of it. And the virus was a combined effort of Goldblum, who made that key discovery, and the area 51 scientists who had analyzed this technology for 50 years. So basically I imagine the "virus" as a reverted version of the signal hidden in the satellite communication. Plus some further technobabble to lower the shields. It's not that stupid.

I believe either the extended version or the novelization goes into details about that as well.
There's both a scene in the extended edition of the film and further details in the novelization that expand on this notion. That's why the computer virus never bothered me.
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Old October 2 2013, 10:43 PM   #125
Mister Fandango
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Closed Caption wrote: View Post
What's stupid about the computer virus is that as advanced as the aliens are, you'd expect them to have computer security so advanced that humans couldn't hack it.
Only if in their culture they're used to having their own people try to hack their systems for nefarious purposes. There was no indication that they functioned that way whatsoever.

This, too, is something I don't have a problem with. The aliens didn't appear to have any factions or make any distinctions between themselves, at least not based on what little we learned of them. If anything, they all seemed to be carbon copies of one another, with their single driving goal to be to eradicate other races, not their own.

So assuming that's accurate, who would they need all that security from, especially if they grossly underestimate their alien opponents, as they clearly did in the movie.
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Old October 2 2013, 11:19 PM   #126
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Closed Caption wrote: View Post
What's stupid about the computer virus is that as advanced as the aliens are, you'd expect them to have computer security so advanced that humans couldn't hack it.
Only if in their culture they're used to having their own people try to hack their systems for nefarious purposes. There was no indication that they functioned that way whatsoever.

This, too, is something I don't have a problem with. The aliens didn't appear to have any factions or make any distinctions between themselves, at least not based on what little we learned of them. If anything, they all seemed to be carbon copies of one another, with their single driving goal to be to eradicate other races, not their own.

So assuming that's accurate, who would they need all that security from, especially if they grossly underestimate their alien opponents, as they clearly did in the movie.
Then, we'd have to conclude that none of the other civilizations they invaded were as computer savvy as Jeff Goldblum. Yay, humanity.
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Old October 2 2013, 11:26 PM   #127
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Closed Caption wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Closed Caption wrote: View Post
What's stupid about the computer virus is that as advanced as the aliens are, you'd expect them to have computer security so advanced that humans couldn't hack it.
Only if in their culture they're used to having their own people try to hack their systems for nefarious purposes. There was no indication that they functioned that way whatsoever.

This, too, is something I don't have a problem with. The aliens didn't appear to have any factions or make any distinctions between themselves, at least not based on what little we learned of them. If anything, they all seemed to be carbon copies of one another, with their single driving goal to be to eradicate other races, not their own.

So assuming that's accurate, who would they need all that security from, especially if they grossly underestimate their alien opponents, as they clearly did in the movie.
Then, we'd have to conclude that none of the other civilizations they invaded were as computer savvy as Jeff Goldblum. Yay, humanity.
That's part of the premise about Harry Turtledove's WorldWar series with aliens invading during WWII. The aliens had sent a probe that transmitted back data on the Earth during the middle-ages so they did not expect any kind of serious technological threat. They had previously conquered two other planets and both races exhibited the same glacial progress as their own race. They were shocked to find out that humans advanced so quickly.

However...the ID4 aliens used satellites already in orbit to relay their signal around the world. If they never encountered races with any kind of advanced technology, why did they expect to be able to find/use human satellites with a compatible system for their needs?

Was there an alternate plan they were going to use? Is there some alien guy sitting on the main ship being told "Sorry Zikzotnik, we actually just figured out that these aliens got satellites in orbit that we can use. We don't need you to launch our own communication satellites. Guess you're on vacation this invasion."
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Old October 3 2013, 12:12 AM   #128
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

It was mentioned in the movie that the aliens that crashed were presumed to be part of a scouting mission, wasn't it? That they had been collecting information about humanity for decades, if not longer?

They just happened to grossly underestimate human ingenuity despite all the data they had collected, which included the existence of satellites and the comparatively primitive technology they took advantage of. Hell, we're absolutely paranoid about ourselves, but public communication satellites are hardly ultra-secure against us.

Closed Caption wrote: View Post
Then, we'd have to conclude that none of the other civilizations they invaded were as computer savvy as Jeff Goldblum. Yay, humanity.
And what's wrong with that? Why must humans always be the dumb, idiotic, backwater hicks of the universe?

I imagine that every sentient species would excel at something. Human adaptability is a great strength to have. Plus they've had decades to study the technology being used, which the aliens had no idea we possessed (else they would have been way more suspicious of the ship showing up out of the blue). Hell, the fact that they let the ship onboard their mothership, no questions asked, just strengthens the point I was making in my previous post; they clearly had no experience or expectation of being attacked in such a manner.
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Old October 3 2013, 12:18 AM   #129
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Hell, the fact that they let the ship onboard their mothership, no questions asked, just strengthens the point I was making in my previous post
It strengthens the stupidity, yes.
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Old October 3 2013, 12:28 AM   #130
Mister Fandango
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

How exactly?

If a race that's paranoid and constantly at war with itself leaves its entire communication grid as open as we do, why is it such a stretch that an alien species so used to absolutely dominating every other species it comes in contact with, and which has no signs of internal strife, would do the same? Especially when the attack is coming from a source they pretty much know nothing about (that we had access to their tech for half a century, complete with a delivery system they accepted with open arms and completely without suspicion)?

But hey, if you wanna convince yourself that you're a worthless idiot, by all means, don't let me stop you. "Derr herr herr, I's a hooman, I's soooo dum! lolololz!"
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Old October 3 2013, 01:13 AM   #131
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
But hey, if you wanna convince yourself that you're a worthless idiot, by all means, don't let me stop you.
Yeah, sure, whatever.
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Old October 3 2013, 11:48 AM   #132
Reverend
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

You know I used to think ID4 was stupid...and then I saw Signs. Now *that's* stupid.
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Old October 3 2013, 01:12 PM   #133
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Much as I love ID4, it is filled with buffoonish cartoon characters and idiotic dialogue and horribly over the top reaction shots to said idiotic dialogue. That's part of its charm
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Old October 3 2013, 03:22 PM   #134
marillion
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Reverend wrote: View Post
You know I used to think ID4 was stupid...and then I saw Signs. Now *that's* stupid.
Actually, I found Signs to be quite good... Very tense and lots of scary moments... The ending resolution and the fact that the Aliens and water don't mix was, yeah, a bit much, but overall the movie was well done, well paced and well written..
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Old October 3 2013, 04:05 PM   #135
lennier1
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Re: Roland Emmerich & Dean Devlin want to make Independence Day 2 (ID4

Reverend wrote: View Post
You know I used to think ID4 was stupid...and then I saw Signs. Now *that's* stupid.
It's more of two hour warning to not waste any more money on that director.
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