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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 3 2013, 02:48 AM   #46
Guy Gardener
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
This isn't a argument/debate about how well they handled the inclusion of continuity and serialization given the series' more episodic nature. It's about debunking the perception that there was no continuity or serialization at all.

Reading through some of the behind-the-scenes info on Memory Alpha does give you the impression that they were 'winging it' at times (more often than they probably should have), but, all things considered, the level of continuity and serialization that they achieved by 'winging it' is actually quite strong.
Your hypothesis is that with whatever unit you measure "continuity' with, is that Voyager had a greater quantity than zero?

I repeat, sorta, that Zero continuity is an anthology show like Twilight Zone.

That Kate Mulgrew played the same character almost (Workforce, The Killing Game, 11:59) every week, shows a greater amount of continuity every week than zero.

The unit of measurement for continuity is called an "Anal".
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Old October 3 2013, 05:17 AM   #47
Anwar
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

BruntFCA wrote: View Post
Sisko changes big time over the course of the show.
What happened in "Pale Moonlight" had no impact on his character when it should've defined him for the rest of the show.

Bashir wasn't "back to normal" at all, there's a definite change in him for the rest of the series.
No there wasn't.

Nog went from a punk kid to a veteran of war(with several stops in between) over the course of the series and he wasn't even a main character.
The war itself allowed for that kind of storytelling. Voyager couldn't do a war arc so that stuff couldn't have happened. It's part of how DS9 had a more workable premise than VOY.

I'm not entirely convinced that DS9 had a more workable premise then VOY, the difference is that DS9 BUILT on the original premise whereas VOY actively fought against its own premise,
VOY's premise was never sustainable in the first place. It wasn't even a real premise. DS9 was able to use what TOS and TNG had built up before it to do it's big war arc, VOY had nothing to work with.

When compared to DS9 there is a big lack of continuity and serialization on VOY. Most episodes of VOY add nothing to the overall tapestry of the series. On DS9 most episodes add SOMETHING to the overall tapestry of the show even if it is just Nog learning how to read.
VOY's "Always on the move" premise meant very little would permanently affect the ship in the first place. They had no "Tapestry" to add to.
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Old October 3 2013, 05:27 AM   #48
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Comparing Voyager to DS9 in terms of how the concepts of serialization and continuity were handled and manifest is like comparing Bones to Battlestar Galactica; it's not an accurate 1-to-1 comparison because you are dealing with two very different shows format-wise. Voyager would have been a fundamentally different show if it had been handled the way it was originally intended to be, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with what we got.
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Old October 3 2013, 05:38 AM   #49
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Here's something weird ass that I've only see written about but it's super weird ass.

They took season one of Ally McBeal, and cut each forty minute Drama into a 20 sitcom by removing everything at the office or the courthouse and retitled the series as "Ally". This was not a fan edit. It really happened on real TV in the late 90s.

DS9 and Voyager had exactly as much continuity as their producers wanted them to have, but since both shows were set in the same universe (St Elsewhere?) they should have each be made in and with respect to each others ability and failings.

I doubt either show failed to meet the design specs of their producer, even if their audiences might have been a revolting mob spoiling for a fight because of some slight.
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Old October 3 2013, 06:16 AM   #50
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DS9 is my favorite of the five Star Trek series, but Voyager is a close second, and I've come to appreciate the latter for what it was as opposed to what it was supposed to have been at the time of its conception.

I also rather like that both series ended up being different from one another because it plays to the diversity of the franchise. Fans who want tight, heavily serialized storytelling can get it in the form of DS9; fans that want a more episodic experience can get it in the form of TOS and TNG; and fans that want a hybrid of episodic adventure and tight serialization can get it in the form of Voyager and Enterprise.

I've just finished the first 'half' of Voyager Season 1 as produced (Caretaker through State of Flux), and the progression and continuity in those 10 episodes is both readily apparent and very consistent, and I honestly feel that they really needed to have been aired in the same order in which they were shot in order to get the most from them.
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Old October 3 2013, 06:19 AM   #51
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Digific is my new hero.
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Old October 3 2013, 06:43 AM   #52
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

teacock wrote: View Post
Digific is my new hero.
Hee.

Some people might disagree with me, but Voyager actually did a better job in many cases with the episodic elements of its format than TNG and TOS did, and also managed to strike a fairly strong balance between those elements and the continuity and serialization elements that it utilized.
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Old October 3 2013, 06:56 AM   #53
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Anwar wrote: View Post
What happened in "Pale Moonlight" had no impact on his character when it should've defined him for the rest of the show.
Not at all, "In the Pale Moonlight" was an effect not a cause . The war happened(cause) which led to "In the Pale Moonlight"(effect)

Anwar wrote: View Post
No there wasn't.
Yes there was


Anwar wrote: View Post
The war itself allowed for that kind of storytelling. Voyager couldn't do a war arc so that stuff couldn't have happened. It's part of how DS9 had a more workable premise than VOY.
Nog had plenty of development before the war started. And VOY could have done a war arc.


Anwar wrote: View Post
VOY had nothing to work with.
VOY was a FICTIONAL TV show, it had literally everything to work with and was only limited by the writers imaginations.

Anwar wrote: View Post
VOY's "Always on the move" premise meant very little would permanently affect the ship in the first place. They had no "Tapestry" to add to.
VOY consistently ignored it's "Always on the move" premise so that excuse doesn't hold any water. But even if they had stuck to the "Always on the move" premise they still had 150 people on the ship so they had plenty to work with.
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Old October 3 2013, 07:03 AM   #54
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

BruntRIP wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
VOY's "Always on the move" premise meant very little would permanently affect the ship in the first place. They had no "Tapestry" to add to.
VOY consistently ignored it's "Always on the move" premise.
How?
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Old October 3 2013, 07:08 AM   #55
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Sometimes.. they parked.
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Old October 3 2013, 07:15 AM   #56
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

In the pale moon light was amazing.

After tyat, it did mean that there were always Romulans and Romulan warships at the station becuase of the alliance withe the star empire, which did change the fabric of a lot of later stories...

but was there a guilty/sorry Sisko in Aftermath, or Sisko again who wanted to make lightning strike twice by breaking all the rules again to help out the war effort again becuase it was so easy the first time?

Not really.

620 was an Odo Loves Kira episode.
621 was the Pagh wraiths vs Prophets story, in which Odo should have played a bigger part if he just hooked up with Kira. Sisko almost lost his son to all thos God drama.
622 jake and Nog behind enemy lines.
623 Ferengi sex change
624 obrien family drama
625 UNiform is family, an ensemble story... But Sisko is more caught up with Cassady moving in .
626 Dukat pwns the Prophets, Sisko is broken.

So his Garrak like behaviour in in the pale Moonlight had no consequences for his character for the rest of the season... but just imagine the story, if at some point that the Romulans had found out?
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Old October 3 2013, 07:20 AM   #57
BruntFCA
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
BruntRIP wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
VOY's "Always on the move" premise meant very little would permanently affect the ship in the first place. They had no "Tapestry" to add to.
VOY consistently ignored it's "Always on the move" premise.
How?
In "The Gift" Kes throws VOY past Borg space(About 10 years) and yet the Borg keep showing up with no explanation. That happens with several species during the series. "Always on the move" means that VOY shouldn't keep running into the same species.
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Old October 3 2013, 07:36 AM   #58
DigificWriter
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^ Seriously? You're going to complain that a space-born race with highly advanced technology wasn't 'confined' to its 'home territory'?

That argument doesn't hold any water whatsoever and, quite frankly, is incredibly silly. The Borg and Voyager kept encountering each other because the Borg kept following Voyager to a certain degree.
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Old October 3 2013, 07:40 AM   #59
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

The Borg. Are everywhere.
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Old October 3 2013, 07:41 AM   #60
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

The Borg can circumnavigate the galaxy in a couple hours at transwarp speed.

To be able to navigate while circumnavigating at that speed, any single cube should be able to "see" at least 3/4's of the galaxy with perfect clarity, but if they network several cubes through the transwarp network of hubs and conduits and transwarp radio relay boosters, well...

The Borg always knew where Voyager was but they didn't give a shit.
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