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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 2 2013, 04:15 PM   #1
Gotham Central
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STID Federation Seal Question...

Does anyone know why the great seal of the Federation was changed for STID?

I remember watching the movie and thinking that it was odd that the flag, which has historically been blue was suddenly white and that the seal suddenly had gear teeth.

Did the International Labour Organization fund this movie because that seal is litterally the ILO logo with stars replacing the letters.
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Old October 2 2013, 05:44 PM   #2
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Have you any screencaps we could look at?
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Old October 2 2013, 06:04 PM   #3
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Click!

I say it symbolizes a harsher, post-Vulcan Federation. The usual Federation flag appears at the start of the movie in London, outside the Kelvin Memorial Archive.
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Old October 2 2013, 10:06 PM   #4
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

STID UFP Flag

ILO Flag
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Old October 3 2013, 03:10 AM   #5
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

They just wanted to change something else for no reason, and make it look "kewler". Give us "old school" fans something else to complain about... oh wait, I forgot, we're just a "vocal minority" and our opinions don't count.
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Old October 3 2013, 03:48 AM   #6
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
The gear wheel in the first one seems closer to the whole wheel of the Rotary Club (though I confess I have no idea at all what that might imply) than to the interrupted wheel of the ILO emblem. Have we not previously seen any Federation (or Starfleet) emblem in which a gear-wheel device figures?


MrJ wrote: View Post
They just wanted to change something else for no reason, and make it look "kewler". Give us "old school" fans something else to complain about... oh wait, I forgot, we're just a "vocal minority"...
A vocal minority among old-school fans? Yes, that does appear to be the case.

MrJ wrote: View Post
... and our opinions don't count.
Everyone's opinions count, though the value of some may be diminished due to having been poorly expressed or ill-informed.
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Old October 3 2013, 04:12 AM   #7
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

MrJ wrote: View Post
They just wanted to change something else for no reason, and make it look "kewler". Give us "old school" fans something else to complain about... oh wait, I forgot, we're just a "vocal minority" and our opinions don't count.
The thing is, people always equate change with loss, but these types of changes are always deliberate (so no, not for "no reason."). It was true ever since the Klingon bumpy heads first appeared in TMP, extending to the Connie-Defiant's aft torpedo launcher in In A Mirror, Darkly and the E-D's red saucer impulse engines in TATV. Weapons, costumes, insignia, old standbys change. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

This slightly sharper UFP logo in no way overwrites or invalidates whatever Federation flags you might have up in your bedroom. Heck, for all we know, the Abramsverse might be using both simultaneously, the way Starfleet used TNG-style ovals behind the chevron for set decoration while everyone wore DS9/VOY-style badges in Generations.

P.S. Passive-aggressively trying to appropriate victim language hardly ever strengthens an opinion.
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Old October 3 2013, 04:41 AM   #8
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Yea...Seals, another way STiD ripped off the Classic TOS movies. If they were gonna sink that low, they should've at least used the Whales instead of Seals ....

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that, definitely wonder if there was a meaningful reason behind the specific shape of the change in the Seal
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Old October 3 2013, 04:57 AM   #9
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

They should have used this flag!!!!!



CANON VIOLATION!!!!!!
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Old October 3 2013, 11:30 AM   #10
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

They could of reused the national flag of Cuba, like in TOS's The Menagerie.

Desi Arnaz would have been proud.

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Old October 3 2013, 12:13 PM   #11
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

MrJ wrote: View Post
They just wanted to change something else for no reason, and make it look "kewler". Give us "old school" fans something else to complain about... oh wait, I forgot, we're just a "vocal minority" and our opinions don't count.
Yes, they did it specifically to annoy fans. It's not like the emblem hasn't been constantly changing over the years between just about every movie and season of the TV shows.
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Old October 3 2013, 01:03 PM   #12
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
The gear wheel in the first one seems closer to the whole wheel of the Rotary Club (though I confess I have no idea at all what that might imply) than to the interrupted wheel of the ILO emblem.
It also reminds me of the national emblem of Italy, the "seal" of the Italian Republic. The cogwheel symbolizes industriousness and stregth through cooperation (many cogs coming together to form a mechanism).

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Old October 3 2013, 06:02 PM   #13
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
The gear wheel in the first one seems closer to the whole wheel of the Rotary Club (though I confess I have no idea at all what that might imply) than to the interrupted wheel of the ILO emblem.
It also reminds me of the national emblem of Italy, the "seal" of the Italian Republic. The cogwheel symbolizes industriousness and stregth through cooperation (many cogs coming together to form a mechanism).

I type the following with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek and only as a cheap joke (not a cheap shot), but with over 50 governments in Italy since the end of WWII, I'm surprised to see a symbol of cooperation in the Italian emblem.
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Old October 3 2013, 09:50 PM   #14
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

I will gladly accept the joke, since I can't really argue against it.

But to be serious for just a moment, the interesting thing is that, over the period from 1948 to 1992, the Italian government was actually pretty solid and saw an incredible expansion of wealth and prosperity (the so-called "economic miracle"). Sure, the cabinets came and went pretty fast due to political maneuvering inside the majority parties, but the actual policies were very well defined and firmly held in place even by wildly different hands. An experiment of unstable equilibrium, if you wish, but a successful one nonetheless.

(Of course, this a wide oversimplification, and in the end the system kinda collapsed upon itself due to corruption, cronyism, and scandals. But the economic growth was real, and the vast improvements in living conditions touched all levels of Italian society.)

And to go back on topic (kinda), and because I think it's pretty awesome, I will mention that the five-pointed star in the Italian emblem is supposed to represent the planet Venus, and it goes back to the 3,000 years old legend of Aeneas's flight after the destruction of Troy to the Land of Sunset, guided by the star of his divine mother, the goddess Venus, and establish Italy as the land of beauty, love, and passion.
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Last edited by iguana_tonante; October 3 2013 at 10:02 PM.
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Old October 3 2013, 11:12 PM   #15
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post

And to go back on topic (kinda), and because I think it's pretty awesome, I will mention that the five-pointed star in the Italian emblem is supposed to represent the planet Venus, and it goes back to the 3,000 years old legend of Aeneas's flight after the destruction of Troy to the Land of Sunset, guided by the star of his divine mother, the goddess Venus, and establish Italy as the land of beauty, love, and passion.
Top that, Federation!
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