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Old October 3 2013, 04:01 AM   #241
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
It's great to be naive isn't it, to think that this isn't just big government getting bigger, and controlling more.

Link
What's funny is the ACA is based on a healthcare plan the Heritage Foundation came up with in the early 90s.

I guess it's only "Big Government" when you don't like the guy in charge.
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Old October 3 2013, 04:06 AM   #242
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
It's great to be naive isn't it, to think that this isn't just big government getting bigger, and controlling more.

Link
You tell me: http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...idual-mandate/
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Old October 3 2013, 04:07 AM   #243
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

It's a Heritage Foundation concept that Newt Gingrich once embraced and Mitt Romney actually implemented a variant of in Massachusetts. It's not even close to socialized, single-payer health care run by the federal government, but because the half-black Democrat with the funny name who might not even have been born here proposed and pushed it through (and said Democrat also decisively defeated their past two Presidential standard bearers) it's Big Gubmint Socialism and the next big exit on the road to the People's Republic of Americastan.

It's cognitive dissonance on a grand scale.
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Old October 3 2013, 04:15 AM   #244
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
It's great to be naive isn't it, to think that this isn't just big government getting bigger, and controlling more.

Link
Funny to link to the Heritage Foundation considering the hated mandate was their idea.
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Old October 3 2013, 04:24 AM   #245
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

We can't be too surprised at the comments that we're getting from Yanks, FSM and others. The political Right in this nation has steadfastly opposed pretty much every new government-proposed health insurance program and health care system reform proposal to come down the pike since the Second World War. I've heard some Righties even complain that funding for children's health and immunization programs and services in lower-income communities constitute handouts and welfare and should be viewed with suspicion and skepticism.

They were saying many of the same things about Medicare and Medicaid almost half a century ago that they're currently saying about the Affordable Care Act, only back then the Republicans were a lot less likely to attack Lyndon Johnson's place of birth, very citizenship or even personal religious beliefs and shut down the federal government to try to stop the programs. The conservative Right has always been skeptical of if not downright hostile to such proposals and programs, but only in recent years have they become bat-guano insane about destroying them at all costs, even they take the economy and even the country down with them.
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Old October 3 2013, 06:24 AM   #246
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Ghouleddie74 wrote: View Post
It's a Heritage Foundation concept that Newt Gingrich once embraced and Mitt Romney actually implemented a variant of in Massachusetts. It's not even close to socialized, single-payer health care run by the federal government, but because the half-black Democrat with the funny name who might not even have been born here proposed and pushed it through (and said Democrat also decisively defeated their past two Presidential standard bearers) it's Big Gubmint Socialism and the next big exit on the road to the People's Republic of Americastan.

It's cognitive dissonance on a grand scale.
Exactly.
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Old October 3 2013, 06:51 AM   #247
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Besides, we already have socialized medicine of a sorts.

Medicaid, VA Veteran Care and Medicare. They might not cover every man, woman and child in the country under one comprehensive national system, but they share more than a few traits in common with the socialized health care systems of several other advanced countries and like the systems and insurance coverage of those other countries those programs generally work and most patients are generally satisfied if not downright happy with them.

And you see how so many Republicans and conservatives rushed to fall in line with those after they went into effect and became very popular and cherished by the American public. Despite the whining and bleating about inefficiency, waste and even fraud that still comes from that side, the Right realized that waging a massive federal war to abolish them would probably relegate the Republican Party to the moldy dustbin of American political history with the Know-Nothings, Prohibition Party and the Nullifiers.

They're assholes, but many of them aren't as stupid as we think. At least not when it comes to playing the right cards and staying in office.
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Old October 3 2013, 11:51 AM   #248
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

^But isn't that what some elected officals do around the world, think more about their own interests than that of their nation as a whole.

The Republican Party wants the Democractic nation to negotiate, so out of interest what are they offering in return for defunding the PPACA? What are they willing to comprimise on?
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Old October 3 2013, 12:48 PM   #249
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Lindley wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
Competition lowers cost, not a bureaucracy.
That is the theory behind the exchanges.
I may be wrong, but it's all still state by state.

Why the insurance companies are in line with this is the law mandates the young buy insurance.
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Old October 3 2013, 12:53 PM   #250
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
It's great to be naive isn't it, to think that this isn't just big government getting bigger, and controlling more.

Link
Yes, big government gets bigger just because, and doesn't actually do anything!
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Old October 3 2013, 12:58 PM   #251
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Ghouleddie74 wrote: View Post
We can't be too surprised at the comments that we're getting from Yanks, FSM and others. The political Right in this nation has steadfastly opposed pretty much every new government-proposed health insurance program and health care system reform proposal to come down the pike since the Second World War. I've heard some Righties even complain that funding for children's health and immunization programs and services in lower-income communities constitute handouts and welfare and should be viewed with suspicion and skepticism.

They were saying many of the same things about Medicare and Medicaid almost half a century ago that they're currently saying about the Affordable Care Act, only back then the Republicans were a lot less likely to attack Lyndon Johnson's place of birth, very citizenship or even personal religious beliefs and shut down the federal government to try to stop the programs. The conservative Right has always been skeptical of if not downright hostile to such proposals and programs, but only in recent years have they become bat-guano insane about destroying them at all costs, even they take the economy and even the country down with them.
Well, you can look at the "successfulness" of Medicare and chose for yourself. The fact is, many stores (Walgreens) and hospitals won;t take Medicare because it doesn't pay enough to make ends meet.

Medicaid is a result of government being involved in Healthcare from the start.

If you like that it's fine, but the free market, if allowed to be free, will lower cost and make insurance affordable to all.

Oh, but the free market reduces government power and control.... can't have that now can we?
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Old October 3 2013, 01:08 PM   #252
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
If you like that it's fine, but the free market, if allowed to be free, will lower cost and make insurance affordable to all.
This keeps being bandied around, but I have yet to see any proof of that. The "invisible hand" is more like a religion than an economic theory.
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Old October 3 2013, 01:17 PM   #253
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
If you like that it's fine, but the free market, if allowed to be free, will lower cost and make insurance affordable to all.
This keeps being bandied around, but I have yet to see any proof of that. The "invisible hand" is more like a religion than an economic theory.
Are there state boundaries for auto insurance?
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Old October 3 2013, 01:19 PM   #254
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
Ghouleddie74 wrote: View Post
We can't be too surprised at the comments that we're getting from Yanks, FSM and others. The political Right in this nation has steadfastly opposed pretty much every new government-proposed health insurance program and health care system reform proposal to come down the pike since the Second World War. I've heard some Righties even complain that funding for children's health and immunization programs and services in lower-income communities constitute handouts and welfare and should be viewed with suspicion and skepticism.

They were saying many of the same things about Medicare and Medicaid almost half a century ago that they're currently saying about the Affordable Care Act, only back then the Republicans were a lot less likely to attack Lyndon Johnson's place of birth, very citizenship or even personal religious beliefs and shut down the federal government to try to stop the programs. The conservative Right has always been skeptical of if not downright hostile to such proposals and programs, but only in recent years have they become bat-guano insane about destroying them at all costs, even they take the economy and even the country down with them.
Well, you can look at the "successfulness" of Medicare and chose for yourself. The fact is, many stores (Walgreens) and hospitals won;t take Medicare because it doesn't pay enough to make ends meet.

Medicaid is a result of government being involved in Healthcare from the start.

If you like that it's fine, but the free market, if allowed to be free, will lower cost and make insurance affordable to all.

Oh, but the free market reduces government power and control.... can't have that now can we?

If state involvment with medical care is so bad, then how come as has been cited with links several times that several countries with Universial Health Care provided by the state rank above the US system in terms of health care?

Now that isn't to say state provided Health Care isn't without it's problems.
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Old October 3 2013, 01:23 PM   #255
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
Ghouleddie74 wrote: View Post
We can't be too surprised at the comments that we're getting from Yanks, FSM and others. The political Right in this nation has steadfastly opposed pretty much every new government-proposed health insurance program and health care system reform proposal to come down the pike since the Second World War. I've heard some Righties even complain that funding for children's health and immunization programs and services in lower-income communities constitute handouts and welfare and should be viewed with suspicion and skepticism.

They were saying many of the same things about Medicare and Medicaid almost half a century ago that they're currently saying about the Affordable Care Act, only back then the Republicans were a lot less likely to attack Lyndon Johnson's place of birth, very citizenship or even personal religious beliefs and shut down the federal government to try to stop the programs. The conservative Right has always been skeptical of if not downright hostile to such proposals and programs, but only in recent years have they become bat-guano insane about destroying them at all costs, even they take the economy and even the country down with them.
Well, you can look at the "successfulness" of Medicare and chose for yourself. The fact is, many stores (Walgreens) and hospitals won;t take Medicare because it doesn't pay enough to make ends meet.

Medicaid is a result of government being involved in Healthcare from the start.

If you like that it's fine, but the free market, if allowed to be free, will lower cost and make insurance affordable to all.

Oh, but the free market reduces government power and control.... can't have that now can we?

If state involvment with medical care is so bad, then how come as has been cited with links several times that several countries with Universial Health Care provided by the state rank above the US system in terms of health care?

Now that isn't to say state provided Health Care isn't without it's problems.
Because they are not compaired with a real free marekt economy?

Those in power will say systems with that power are "better".
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