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Old September 30 2013, 03:33 PM   #46
E-DUB
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

One of the novels, and I know they're not canon, had Dukat behind the disappearance of Illiana Ghemor, (the Obsidian Order operative altered to look like Kira and given her memories). He deposited her in a secret hideaway and would drop in, schedule permitting, for Dukat-style fun and games.

This is certainly consistent with his telling Papa Ghemor that he knew where she was and with his comment to Kira that they already had an "intimate" relationship.
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Old September 30 2013, 03:36 PM   #47
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

Yeah that novel took Dukat to an even more sick level. Yet was perfectly believable.
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Old September 30 2013, 05:03 PM   #48
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

27th October is when the UK revers back to GMT. The only good thing is, it means an extra hour in bed on that day.
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Old September 30 2013, 05:29 PM   #49
dub
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

man, I need to get my hands on these novels.
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Old September 30 2013, 06:47 PM   #50
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Mr. Gardner,

Just because there were slaves in the house and slaves in the field does not mean that either one was more free than the other. One may have enjoyed a modicum of comfort over the other. Nonetheless, they were trapped by a system in which they were at their masters' mercy. They did not need to be reminded that their lives were in jeopardy: the system did that for the masters. The fact that the masters were technocrats did not make them merciful. The fact that some proclaimed to be more benevolent did not make them so, and the slaves could not take that claim at face value.
Do you know what sarcasm is?

I was calling Meru a fucking moron.

You didn't get that?

She sold out to save her kids who did not give a shit.

They still thought they were being hard done by even though their lives must have been amazing compared to everyone else who's mother was not frakking the Prefect.

But then Meru had to be careful and only make their lives back on Bajor a little better and not a lot better so that the resistance doesn't figure out that Kira family are collaborators and cut their feet off.

Besides.

Kira aware of her mother paying for a happy childhood on her back is obviously the Mirror Universe's Attendant. Possibly in the Mirror Universe Meru actually sent for her children to come live with her.
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Old September 30 2013, 07:08 PM   #51
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

^I know you have a shtick. No one needs to accept it.
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Old September 30 2013, 07:10 PM   #52
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

According to the season 3 episode Destiny Cardassians view irritation and snark, when directed at a certain individual, as a sign of sexual attraction/interest towards that individual

I have always believed that Dukat, with his twisted mind, interpreted Kira's continuous obvious irritation and snark toward him as her flirting with him even though she wasnt Cardassian and didnt intend it that way. In the episode Civil Defense we have Garak, rather wonderfully, revealing that Dukats posturing and arrogant assertians that he will get them out of the hopeless sistuation are actually his attempt to flirt with and impress Major Kira.

So he did attempt to flirt with her the Cardassian way so its not too impossible to think that he was repsonding to what his twisted mind percieved as her flirting with him in the Cardassian way.

Of course in later seasons he just blatantly makes passes at her and his twisted need to be loved by Bajorans becomes obvious. I get the feeling this post didnt make much sense its mostly ramblings oh well...
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Old September 30 2013, 07:15 PM   #53
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

^ It makes a lot more sense than some of what's been posted here.
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Old October 1 2013, 12:07 AM   #54
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Yeah, her dad lied about what happened to mom. I might too in that situation. "Oh no honey, your mom's alive and has been the mistress of our planet's evil overlord... oh it's evening at Terok Nor standard time now, she he's probably banging her right now."

Not only is a noble death a bit more... merciful... on children's ears, but what was Kira's reaction when he learned of it? Oh yeah, she was a collaborator and deserved to die. Maybe he didn't want their kids to hate their mother.
All totally understandable. Why burden them with what would be hard to deal with in any situation but in these political times might result in the exact opposite of what Meru wanted for her children.

And as I said, Kira's character arc is often about being less black and white. I guess you tell yourself that everything you do is for the good of the cause when it involves killing, terrorism, civilian causalities and you keep telling yourself that because you can't be sitting around in the grey zone of morality and get your job done. But now in her position on DS9 (out of the trenches) she has to confront that what other people did to get by in the occupation wasn't always something you could label right or wrong so easily.
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Old October 1 2013, 12:33 AM   #55
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

teacake wrote: View Post
And as I said, Kira's character arc is often about being less black and white. I guess you tell yourself that everything you do is for the good of the cause when it involves killing, terrorism, civilian causalities and you keep telling yourself that because you can't be sitting around in the grey zone of morality and get your job done. But now in her position on DS9 (out of the trenches) she has to confront that what other people did to get by in the occupation wasn't always something you could label right or wrong so easily.
Re-evaluating the memory of the occupation is definitely a central issue in Kira's development. However, I found WDTEAN was among the weaker episodes. On the one hand, it was also one of the Dukat-screws-with-Kira episodes, and I found it rather contrived that Dukat would have crossed paths with Kira's family (not without mentioning it before). On the other, the writers didn't have a firm grasp of the Vichy metaphors they were dealing with. Kira came close to recognize the victimization of her mother, but ended up being resentful, in spite of sparing her life. At the end of the Vichy regime, there were reprisals against the worst collaborators, but moreso against those like Basso than Meru. The episode should have resolved with Kira attempting to deal with the shame of her mother's actions than judging her.
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Old October 1 2013, 12:57 AM   #56
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

I was pretty irritated with Kira during this episode. But it's easier to be objective when it's not your own mother.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:06 AM   #57
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

Like in season 2's Necessary Evil when Kira slinked into the Station, murdered a collaborator, lied her ass off and then slinked out?

Mommy met the the requirements for her hitlist.

Daddy too.

Taking the extra food and medicine is just as bad and collaborative as giving it.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:07 AM   #58
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Yeah that novel took Dukat to an even more sick level. Yet was perfectly believable.
A more sick level?

I should read that...
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Old October 1 2013, 01:11 AM   #59
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

I recommend the first book in the Terok Nor trilogy, a young Dukat at the beginning of the Occupation. Author is James Swallow. Brilliant expose of how his mind works, you can see the developing psychopathy. Very interesting portrayal of Bajor's political failures that allowed the Occupation to insidiously take over.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:15 AM   #60
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Re: Dukat attracted to Nerys?

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Yeah that novel took Dukat to an even more sick level. Yet was perfectly believable.
A more sick level?

I should read that...
Fearful Symmetry by Olivia Woods. A real tragic story, and Dukat's only a minor part in it, but the scenes with him are more than a little sick. It's the story of what happened to Illiana Ghemor.

It's not real good as a stand alone novel though given Illiana's sudden position showing up as an antagonist.
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