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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 29 2013, 09:51 AM   #136
Maurice
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Forgive me if I don't find "I know you are but what am I" a particularly persuasive debating gambit, sorry man.
None of us have a hope of persuading you into liking the movie. But you have been as selective as we have been. Your refuting of the Enterprise being able to enter the atmosphere being just one point.

Maurice wrote: View Post
Are you sure about that?
I'm sure that one version of a movie proposal concerned the softlanding of the saucer, and the passage of time, yes. If not "Planet of the Titans", then one of the many other proposals on the table.
I seem to recall the idea of a saucer crash being mentioned for one of the proposals, but it wasn't POTT.
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Old September 29 2013, 10:58 AM   #137
Therin of Andor
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Maurice wrote: View Post
I seem to recall the idea of a saucer crash being mentioned for one of the proposals, but it wasn't POTT.
Ah, here we go:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sauc...ion#Appendices

The first visualization of a saucer separation was conceptualized by Ralph McQuarrie, as he worked on the pre-production of the abandoned 1976-1977 Star Trek: Planet of the Titans project. He stated, "I had devised a concept for the end of the film... Some alien form has designed a way to use the power of a black hole's gravity to form a spherical shroud around the black hole. If you have a dense enough material, gravity cannot penetrate it. There are two openings in the shroud that they would use to pull ships in. The saucer of the Enterprise (which was detachable) ends up in the shroud. They meet the aliens and had a dramatic finale. These two images are of the Enterprise saucer in the shroud [....] The disc of the Enterprise would separate from the rest of the ship to land on the surface of planets." [2] The sketches McQuarrie referred to, of the independently operating saucer section, were published in The Art of Ralph McQuarrie (pp. 124-129).

A year later, a saucer separation involving the refit Constitution-class Enterprise (NCC-1701) was storyboarded by Andrew Probert for a possible scene at the end of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Features such as a separation line were intentionally designed into the filming model by Probert, and were good indications that the ship can separate just like its earlier form. (Star Trek: The Next Generation USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D Blueprints)
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Old September 29 2013, 12:22 PM   #138
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Which why I like TOS and NuTrek better. There's very little technobabble.
In the latter case, only until it comes time to explain the writing decisions.
Its what fans do. We've been rationalizing writing decisions in Trek and just plain making stuff up to explain it for nearly 50 years. This did not start in 2009.
Star Trek science has never been compatible with real science and just now deciding to complain about it seems like someone just has an ax to grind.

I've watched the Enterprise swim through protoplasm for God sakes and coming out the other end no worse for wear. So I'm not too concerned about it surviving in and ocean or atmosphere.
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Old September 29 2013, 08:07 PM   #139
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

ComicGuy89 wrote: View Post
Khan444 wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
Judging the movie as a movie-goer: Meh. Not to my taste. But a decent big blockbustery effects-o-rama. It did well but not amazingly, as both articles mention, I believe.

As a Trek fan, I second both articles. Convoluted film, Spock on Skype (haha), some cold spy-ish dude named Khan. Spock yelling Khaaan, ridiculous. I saw it once in theater, won't buy it, and might not see the next, based on the first two. I'm not into all the "kewl," so it was lame to me. Make an original star trek movie next time: exploration, action, and philosophical. Some of the movies have done it. Many episodes have done it. Can the present production team do it? I have my doubts.

Maybe space exploration is not a good topic for the 2010s. It's not 1967.

Maybe the problem is "Trek" is now just a franchise owned by a corporation which wants to spin it into money. So it hires some currently "hot" producer/writers. There doesn't seem to be a human truly at the center (like GR or Berman) invested in this concept, desiring to use it to tell stories. Now it seems like, "Well, we have to make a third movie that grosses $XYZ, let's get it done and over with. YMMV
No, NONE of the MOVIES were focused on exploration, sorry to disappoint you. TMP came closest, and it was a failure both critically and financially. The TV SHOWS were about exploration and discovery. You can do that in a twenty plus episode season better than a two hour movie. The films have always been geared more towards a mass audience, so this is nothing new.
Well TMP actually is one of the higher grossing Trek movies, so it was a financial success. I suspect that has to do with the Trek name more than the movie itself. It wasn't regarded that fondly, hence the drastic departure in tone with The Wrath of Khan.

But Khan444 is right, none of them focused on exploration and philosophy was often thinner than their episodes. Ironically enough, I felt The Wrath of Khan was one of the philosophically strongest movies, and yet it was also the most action-packed.

In terms of giving me more to think about, in my opinion, STiD beats The Voyage Home, The Final Frontier, Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis. This is just my opinion, however.
I'd rank it either third of fourth, behind WOK, The Undiscovered Country, and MAYBE The Search for Spock.
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Old September 30 2013, 02:03 AM   #140
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Khan444 wrote: View Post
ComicGuy89 wrote: View Post
Khan444 wrote: View Post
No, NONE of the MOVIES were focused on exploration, sorry to disappoint you. TMP came closest, and it was a failure both critically and financially. The TV SHOWS were about exploration and discovery. You can do that in a twenty plus episode season better than a two hour movie. The films have always been geared more towards a mass audience, so this is nothing new.
Well TMP actually is one of the higher grossing Trek movies, so it was a financial success. I suspect that has to do with the Trek name more than the movie itself. It wasn't regarded that fondly, hence the drastic departure in tone with The Wrath of Khan.

But Khan444 is right, none of them focused on exploration and philosophy was often thinner than their episodes. Ironically enough, I felt The Wrath of Khan was one of the philosophically strongest movies, and yet it was also the most action-packed.

In terms of giving me more to think about, in my opinion, STiD beats The Voyage Home, The Final Frontier, Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis. This is just my opinion, however.
I'd rank it either third of fourth, behind WOK, The Undiscovered Country, and MAYBE The Search for Spock.
Do you mean in terms of giving you more to think about? I agree with your list, and I realized I forgot to add The Motion Picture in the former list.
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Old September 30 2013, 02:11 AM   #141
Khan444
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

The problem with TMP is that it is SO SLOW. I don't mind slower moving films (my favorite film is The Godfather) but TMP was slow in a bad way. It dragged and dragged because there wasn't enough plot to fill a two hour plus movie.
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Old September 30 2013, 05:51 AM   #142
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Khan444 wrote: View Post
The problem with TMP is that it is SO SLOW. I don't mind slower moving films (my favorite film is The Godfather) but TMP was slow in a bad way. It dragged and dragged because there wasn't enough plot to fill a two hour plus movie.
TMP is my favorite ST movie, but I understand when people complain about the pacing--hell, I even agree with them: it's a slow ass movie.
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Old September 30 2013, 05:57 AM   #143
Nerys Myk
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Sometimes I get flashbacks where I'm still watching it.
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Old September 30 2013, 06:15 AM   #144
ComicGuy89
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Khan444 wrote: View Post
The problem with TMP is that it is SO SLOW. I don't mind slower moving films (my favorite film is The Godfather) but TMP was slow in a bad way. It dragged and dragged because there wasn't enough plot to fill a two hour plus movie.
TMP is my favorite ST movie, but I understand when people complain about the pacing--hell, I even agree with them: it's a slow ass movie.
Makes for some nice, gratuitous shots though.
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Old September 30 2013, 06:30 AM   #145
SeerSGB
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Sometimes I get flashbacks where I'm still watching it.
Those aren't flashbacks, the movie's still playing. I think they're almost to the end of the Enterprise reveal scene.
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Old September 30 2013, 08:22 AM   #146
Maurice
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
I seem to recall the idea of a saucer crash being mentioned for one of the proposals, but it wasn't POTT.
Ah, here we go:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sauc...ion#Appendices

The first visualization of a saucer separation was conceptualized by Ralph McQuarrie, as he worked on the pre-production of the abandoned 1976-1977 Star Trek: Planet of the Titans project. He stated, "I had devised a concept for the end of the film... Some alien form has designed a way to use the power of a black hole's gravity to form a spherical shroud around the black hole. If you have a dense enough material, gravity cannot penetrate it. There are two openings in the shroud that they would use to pull ships in. The saucer of the Enterprise (which was detachable) ends up in the shroud. They meet the aliens and had a dramatic finale. These two images are of the Enterprise saucer in the shroud [....] The disc of the Enterprise would separate from the rest of the ship to land on the surface of planets." [2] The sketches McQuarrie referred to, of the independently operating saucer section, were published in The Art of Ralph McQuarrie (pp. 124-129).

A year later, a saucer separation involving the refit Constitution-class Enterprise (NCC-1701) was storyboarded by Andrew Probert for a possible scene at the end of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Features such as a separation line were intentionally designed into the filming model by Probert, and were good indications that the ship can separate just like its earlier form. (Star Trek: The Next Generation USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D Blueprints)
Yep. The relates images are in this post (link),
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Old September 30 2013, 03:33 PM   #147
Tulin
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Dream wrote: View Post
Not everyone loved Benedict Cumberbatch: The Movie! They shouldn't be so shocked.
Yeah and not everyone gets the cult of Benedict Cumberband, either!

I just don't get it.
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Old September 30 2013, 03:37 PM   #148
Tulin
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
The best thing Paramount can do is ignore us because some of us will never be happy. They could rebuilt the original sets, clone the actors and write the greatest hours of television ever seen by human eyes and a small group of fans could find something to complain about. They don't want to happy, they're miserable about something and want to drag everyone down to their level. It's sad, pathetic and annoying. Thankfully the majority of them are confined to the internet, much like that giant head that claimed to be God.
Or, you know, they had genuine grievances about story quality, rehashing old plots in a watered-down fashion and an over-use of special effects over logic.


Or we could just go with your overblown hyperbole mixed with ad homynym attacks and call anybody who disagrees with YOU(apparently THE AUTHORITY)sad, pathetic and annoying.
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Old September 30 2013, 03:53 PM   #149
ComicGuy89
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Tulin wrote: View Post
Or, you know, they had genuine grievances about story quality, rehashing old plots in a watered-down fashion and an over-use of special effects over logic.
But people have argued this over and over again, all of the above is entirely subjective.

I really don't get why this issue has to be brought up over and over again.
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Old September 30 2013, 04:37 PM   #150
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

drt wrote: View Post
The transwarp beaming seems to be a one-way trip, from everything presented in '09 and ID, a very precise transporter lock is needed to beam someone up but not down, so it appears you can send somebody to another planet with the transwarp beaming, but I'm not sure there's a way to bring them back.
It's funny, the Dominion also had the ability to beam people across distances of a few light years too, yet they still insisted on maintaining an empire enforced by fleets of starships. The value of a flexible system of starbases and starships is just too great to give up on.
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