RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,568
Posts: 5,423,296
Members: 24,809
Currently online: 456
Newest member: Dobian

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Coto Drama Sold To Fox
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Braga Inks Deal
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Remastered Original Series Re-release
By: T'Bonz on Sep 11

UK Trek Ships Calendar Debuts
By: T'Bonz on Sep 10


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 29 2013, 02:00 PM   #16
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

Hando wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I was curious if the space map on the left side of this graphic would have anything to do with the book. It seems not.

I'd like to see how the maps will compare to the Star Charts or the earlier Star Trek Maps.
King, what is that nuTreky picture?
It's the "powerwall" seen in the background of Pike and Marcus' offices in Into Darkness, cut together from the video here: http://vimeo.com/72019454

The non-annotated version and an early prototype are here.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 02:09 PM   #17
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It's the "powerwall" seen in the background of Pike and Marcus' offices in Into Darkness, cut together from the video here: http://vimeo.com/72019454

The non-annotated version and an early prototype are here.
Interesting, although a lot of the details clearly weren't meant to stand up to close analysis -- like the part on the far right with star system names superimposed on a satellite photo of the San Francisco Bay Area, or anachronistic references to "transwarp network" and "Orgainian [sic] Peace Treaty."
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 02:17 PM   #18
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

^Look closer, they each point to flights out of San Francisco to those worlds. And a transwarp network would explain the extremely fast travel times in the new movies, should one insist on using the warp factor cubed formula as a baseline.

That said, you're right it was only ever intended to be background art. But a piece of background art I've had a great deal of fun analysing. Trek referencing Trek is nice after Mike Okuda's endless non-Trek references in TNG screengraphics.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 02:26 PM   #19
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
And a transwarp network would explain the extremely fast travel times in the new movies, should one insist on using the warp factor cubed formula as a baseline.
Why should we insist on that, when TOS itself never did? The one episode that gave us a direct warp factor/distance/travel time comparison was "That Which Survives," and the warp velocity it indicated was thousands of times greater than what the WF-cubed formula would suggest. That "formula" was a myth to begin with.

Besides, nothing we see in the films is consistent with a "network" of transwarp lanes. Ships just go really, really fast from any given point to any other given point.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 02:44 PM   #20
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

Oh, I agree completely. It's just some people in XI+ are somewhat fixated upon it, and I wonder if whoever made that graphic snuck it is as a possible "out" for them.

It's also possible it refers to transwarp radio, as described in Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise (which is where they got the "diburnium-osmium" shields from) and which might explain (again, should one need an explaination) Kirk's phonecall from the Klingon border to a club in San Francisco.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 03:09 PM   #21
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

^No need for anachronisms like transwarp. ENT made it clear that instantaneous long-range subspace communication was possible if there were subspace relays in place. This explains the existing inconsistency between the TOS episodes where they were three weeks from getting a reply from Starfleet (presumably in regions where no relay was in range) and those where they could communicate instantaneously with Starfleet from a considerable distance.

So here you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 03:18 PM   #22
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

Again, not me. A take-it-or-leave-it answer for those who obsess about such things. I previously said virtually the same thing you just did in this thread here.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 06:14 PM   #23
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

There are other differences between Prime Trek's depiction of warp drive vs. Abramsverse Trek. In the Abramsverse, the implication seems to be that ships at warp are flying sensor-blind to what's happening in normal space -- hence the Enterprise leaving warp and flying right into the debris field in ST09, for instance. And
line in STID about Kirk being wrong in thinking that going to warp means the Enterprise is safe from weapons fire seems to imply that it's virtually unheard of for ships at warp to be able to fire weapons at one-another. So all of this does seem to imply that Abramsverse warp drive works on different principles than Prime Trek's.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 06:47 PM   #24
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

^Ah, but warp drive in the Prime universe has been portrayed in various different ways. In "The Cage" it was called "time warp" and was depicted as making the ship turn transparent. In TOS it didn't seem to look any different from impulse travel, but then in TMP it became something distinct from normal space, entered with a bang and characterized by multicolored streaks of light -- a precedent which later productions followed in their own varying ways.

So who's to say how warp drive worked in the late 2250s in the Prime universe? We have insufficient evidence to rule anything out.

The problem is that, even though the existing Trek canon is a hodgepodge of clashing interpretations and approaches, we learn to gloss over the discrepancies and manufacture for ourselves the illusion that there's a single consistent standard unifying it all. So when another new interpretation comes along, something we haven't yet had time to blend with the rest in our memories, we fool ourselves into thinking it's a departure from a previously uniform whole.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2013, 12:24 AM   #25
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

Christopher wrote: View Post
The problem is that ENT itself gave mixed messages about Vulcan's location.
Remember all the shouting when the Klingon Empire was shown to be only a few days travel from Earth?

I feel that the ENT writers had an intention with the "Vulcan star charts", mentioned several times in "Broken Bow", that they showed known-only-to-Vulcans shortcuts to places like the Klingon Homeworld (and later to P'jem and Andor). Thus the Klingons could be mere days from a ship leaving Earth and following Vulcan star charts, but Earth was still weeks/months away for the Klingons coming in the opposite direction.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2013, 12:29 AM   #26
JeBuS
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
The problem is that ENT itself gave mixed messages about Vulcan's location.
Remember all the shouting when the Klingon Empire was shown to be only a few days travel from Earth?

I feel that the ENT writers had an intention with the "Vulcan star charts", mentioned several times in "Broken Bow", that they showed known-only-to-Vulcans shortcuts to places like the Klingon Homeworld (and later to P'jem and Andor). Thus the Klingons could be mere days from a ship leaving Earth and following Vulcan star charts, but Earth was still weeks/months away for the Klingons coming in the opposite direction.
How would that even work? Space is space, no? Point A and Point B, fastest route is a straight line.
JeBuS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2013, 12:59 AM   #27
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

JeBuS wrote: View Post
How would that even work? Space is space, no? Point A and Point B, fastest route is a straight line.
I seem to recall early TOS "making of..." books speculating that open space probably had wormholes, eddies, slipstreams, etc, that could provide differences in travel time.

Just found this:
http://www.ditl.org/pagscitech.php?S...ListID=Scitech
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2013, 01:10 AM   #28
JeBuS
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

*shrug*

Warp is as fast as the plot. With nuTrek, they had a chance to fix everything up right, in a way they never could have imagined back when TOS first aired. But they didn't. Warp is still as fast as the plot. Everything else said to the subject is a waste of debate time.
JeBuS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2013, 01:51 AM   #29
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

JeBuS wrote: View Post
With nuTrek, they had a chance to fix everything up right, in a way they never could have imagined back when TOS first aired. But they didn't.
Hahahahahaha! Imagine the furor if Bad Robot attempted to "fix everything up right"!
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2013, 02:31 AM   #30
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: First look inside the new Stellar Cartography

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Remember all the shouting when the Klingon Empire was shown to be only a few days travel from Earth?
It was actually scripted as a four-week journey, but it was changed during production.


I feel that the ENT writers had an intention with the "Vulcan star charts", mentioned several times in "Broken Bow", that they showed known-only-to-Vulcans shortcuts to places like the Klingon Homeworld (and later to P'jem and Andor). Thus the Klingons could be mere days from a ship leaving Earth and following Vulcan star charts, but Earth was still weeks/months away for the Klingons coming in the opposite direction.
I very much doubt that was their intention, since their knowledge of basic astronomy was painfully inept (they didn't even know Rigel was a real star). But it's a good rationalization. After all, we can see just about everything in space just by looking up with a good enough telescope, so in normal-space terms there's no reason why Vulcans should have much astronavigational information we wouldn't have been able to discover ourselves. Unless it's something to do with subspace, something not visible to telescopes.


JeBuS wrote: View Post
How would that even work? Space is space, no? Point A and Point B, fastest route is a straight line.
It's been posited for decades, in works like Star Trek Maps and the TNG Technical Manual, that the actual speed of a ship at a given warp factor varies depending on the conditions of the space it travels through -- the distribution of mass and energy, the subspace geometry, etc. There's a longstanding concept, actually alluded to in Star Charts, that there are "high-speed lanes" where the subspace conditions make warp drive unusually fast. And as I said, this is a handy way to reconcile the otherwise implausible Trek conceit that there's a need for navigators and charts in outer space, where there are no horizons and you can just see where you're going no matter how far away it is.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:45 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.