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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 29 2013, 07:12 PM   #211
BillJ
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
Kirk was a Lt.
In TOS? At one point in his prior career yes. In the 2009 film? I'm pretty sure he's a cadet at the start and by the end. Maybe I'm misremembering that.
Do we have any proof at all that Kirk went through the Lt. Commander and Commander ranks before getting command of the Enterprise?
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Old September 29 2013, 07:15 PM   #212
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Do we have any proof at all that Kirk went through the Lt. Commander and Commander ranks before getting command of the Enterprise?
Why would we need it, exactly? Why would the question even come up? No great fuss is made of Kirk as being Awesomely Special in the actual series, there's no reason to assume he wouldn't have come to his post via a reasonably "normal" chain of command.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:17 PM   #213
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Consider - Kirk was one of the youngest to make Capt. in the Prime Universe, so it is plausible that he skipped a few ranks.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:17 PM   #214
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
It seems that you're the one dancing around the believability question because there has been more than enough evidence posted that Starfleet acts however a particular story dictates it needs it to act.
This has already been asked and answered. If we're deteriorating into desperate repetition already, I think this has run its course. Have a nice day.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:18 PM   #215
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Opus wrote: View Post
Consider - Kirk was one of the youngest to make Capt. in the Prime Universe, so it is plausible that he skipped a few ranks.
(Again, the "youngest-ever Captain" business is a later retcon. It's never mentioned or made any fuss of in the actual show.)
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Old September 29 2013, 07:21 PM   #216
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post

Why would we need it, exactly? Why would the question even come up? No great fuss is made of Kirk as being Awesomely Special in the actual series, there's no reason to assume he wouldn't have come to his post via a reasonably "normal" chain of command.
Because at the age of 32 ("The Deadly Years") he was already in command of a Constitution-class starship and was obviously much younger than every other captain we saw in the series.

So Kirk was obviously "Awesomely Special" in the Prime universe too, at least some degree and his career path to captain was likely shorter than his peers.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:25 PM   #217
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post

This has already been asked and answered. If we're deteriorating into desperate repetition already, I think this has run its course. Have a nice day.
I apologize that the facts don't agree with your interpretation of Star Trek.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:29 PM   #218
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Because at the age of 32 ("The Deadly Years") he was already in command of a Constitution-class starship and was obviously much younger than every other captain we saw in the series.
How many Captains was that? It's not exactly a large sample, I remember Ron Tracie and Commodore (not Captain) Deckard (and that one guy we see in "The Ultimate Computer").

Captains in the actual American navy on which Starfleet was modeled have won battlefield commissions to Captain at ages as young as 25. So it is possible that Kirk could have leapfrogged some ranks that way. But it's just as possible that he came to the rank by just being a good, driven officer and climbing the ranks. There's nothing unbelievable about that, by contrast with what happens at the end of the 2009 film.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:30 PM   #219
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
It seems that you're the one dancing around the believability question because there has been more than enough evidence posted that Starfleet acts however a particular story dictates it needs it to act.
This has already been asked
Yes, it has. And we're still waiting for you to actually answer. The dancing is rather cute, though.


Have a nice day.
I already am, thank you!
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Old September 29 2013, 07:30 PM   #220
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
I apologize that the facts don't agree with your interpretation of Star Trek.
I dub you Commander Burns, on account of all the burnage.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:32 PM   #221
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
Captains in the actual American navy on which Starfleet was modeled have won battlefield commissions to Captain at ages as young as 25.
And the Abramsverse Kirk is 25 when he takes command of the Enterprise after undertaking actions that went above and beyond the call of duty. So what exactly is the problem here?
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Old September 29 2013, 07:33 PM   #222
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Opus wrote: View Post
The dancing is rather cute, though
Oh, the irony.

You, my friend, are instantly promoted to Captain Zinger. You're way better than that Burns guy.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:34 PM   #223
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
So what exactly is the problem here?
That battlefield promotions tend to happen with commissioned officers and not cadets? I thought you knew what kind of "believability" we were talking about here.

Okay, really going.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:37 PM   #224
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

So you say this...

BigJake wrote: View Post
Captains in the actual American navy on which Starfleet was modeled have won battlefield commissions to Captain at ages as young as 25. So it is possible that Kirk could have leapfrogged some ranks that way.
But then you say this...

by contrast with what happens at the end of the 2009 film.
So Kirk defeats a crazed Romulan with a supership and a magic lava lamp of black hole creating redness, leads an away mission onto said ship that saves Pike and earth, and you don't think, you all by yerself, don't think that would be worthy of a battlefield commission. As young as age 25. You said yourself. In the same post.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:38 PM   #225
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
The dancing is rather cute, though
Oh, the irony.

You, my friend, are instantly promoted to Captain Zinger. You're way better than that Burns guy.
Oooo! A promotion!

Must be a battlefield commission.

Thank you!
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