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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old September 29 2013, 03:05 PM   #76
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Noddy wrote: View Post
An interesting notion I do not share.
I have to admit that I'd rather have a proper story with two Doctors than a smorgasbord of obscure references and cameos by elderly gentlemen which would serve no purpose except making a couple of fans happy. What people here say they'd like sounds more like a convention than a television show.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:12 PM   #77
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Noddy wrote: View Post
If it's mainly a celebration of the last eight years, with a bare minimum of references to the classic series, then they should stop calling it a fiftieth anniversary celebration. Just sticking Tom Baker's scarf on some random woman, and having UNIT turn up, are hardly what I call fitting throwbacks to the past.
I have to agree with The Mirrorball Man here.

Fandom and Moffat have had two entirely different ideas about the anniversary special.

For fandom, it's a special episode to celebrate fifty years of Doctor Who.

For Moffat, it's a special episode that happens to fall on Doctor Who's fiftieth anniversary. He said in March, when the special was about to film, that it's not "about looking backwards."

I get that fans want a valentine to the series and its fifty year legacy. But Moffat was never prepared to deliver that. He was never going to.

He made a special, to be broadcast on the anniversary, that's going to have a huge audience because by early November everyone in Britain is going to know that Doctor Who's fiftieth anniversary falls on Saturday, November 23rd. I expect tributes and retrospectives in the media, so if it's nostalgia you want, you'll find it in SFX or the Grauniad and not in Moffat's special which is going to be aimed not at the fans but at the Not-We who only watch Doctor Who on Christmas Day and remember David Tennant when he wasn't on Broadchurch.

When I said I expected the anniversary special to be like "The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe," I wasn't be facetious. It's a good comparison point. This year, Moffat's made an extra Christmas special, albeit one with three Doctors (possibly four if there's a Capaldi cameo) and not airing on Christmas Day.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:12 PM   #78
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Is it really so much to want to see Leela and/or Romana at some point in the Time War sequences? Or Susan? These are characters who haven't been seen on-screen for many, MANY years; if anyone deserves a chance to come back and do something new for the current generation, it's them.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:14 PM   #79
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Noddy wrote: View Post
If it's mainly a celebration of the last eight years, with a bare minimum of references to the classic series, then they should stop calling it a fiftieth anniversary celebration. Just sticking Tom Baker's scarf on some random woman, and having UNIT turn up, are hardly what I call fitting throwbacks to the past.
I have to agree with The Mirrorball Man here.

Fandom and Moffat have had two entirely different ideas about the anniversary special.

For fandom, it's a special episode to celebrate fifty years of Doctor Who.

For Moffat, it's a special episode that happens to fall on Doctor Who's fiftieth anniversary. He said in March, when the special was about to film, that it's not "about looking backwards."

I get that fans want a valentine to the series and its fifty year legacy. But Moffat was never prepared to deliver that. He was never going to.

He made a special, to be broadcast on the anniversary, that's going to have a huge audience because by early November everyone in Britain is going to know that Doctor Who's fiftieth anniversary falls on Saturday, November 23rd. I expect tributes and retrospectives in the media, so if it's nostalgia you want, you'll find it in SFX or the Grauniad and not in Moffat's special which is going to be aimed not at the fans but at the Not-We who only watch Doctor Who on Christmas Day and remember David Tennant when he wasn't on Broadchurch.

When I said I expected the anniversary special to be like "The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe," I wasn't be facetious. It's a good comparison point. This year, Moffat's made an extra Christmas special, albeit one with three Doctors (possibly four if there's a Capaldi cameo) and not airing on Christmas Day.
Then I want no part of it. Such a thing is an insult.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:22 PM   #80
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

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Then I want no part of it. Such a thing is an insult.
Then you're taking offense not at what was given to you but at what you imagined you were owed.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:23 PM   #81
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Noddy wrote: View Post
If it's mainly a celebration of the last eight years, with a bare minimum of references to the classic series, then they should stop calling it a fiftieth anniversary celebration. Just sticking Tom Baker's scarf on some random woman, and having UNIT turn up, are hardly what I call fitting throwbacks to the past.
I have to agree with The Mirrorball Man here.

Fandom and Moffat have had two entirely different ideas about the anniversary special.

For fandom, it's a special episode to celebrate fifty years of Doctor Who.

For Moffat, it's a special episode that happens to fall on Doctor Who's fiftieth anniversary. He said in March, when the special was about to film, that it's not "about looking backwards."

I get that fans want a valentine to the series and its fifty year legacy. But Moffat was never prepared to deliver that. He was never going to.
Then it's time he was kicked off the show and replaced by someone who genuinely does give a damn about everything that made it great in the first place.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:26 PM   #82
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

I don't want a slightly longer Christmas special.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:31 PM   #83
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

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Then it's time he was kicked off the show and replaced by someone who genuinely does give a damn about everything that made it great in the first place.
If you expect any professional to turn Doctor Who into a nostalgia-fest full of homages and cryptic references about the show's past, you're going to be disappointed. A nod here and there, yes, a couple of references, of course, but you're never going to get the kind of wasn't-it-fun-in-the-good-old-days museum show you're interested in. Anyway, nostalgia is not what made Doctor Who great in the first place, quite the opposite.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:34 PM   #84
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Noddy wrote: View Post
Then it's time he was kicked off the show and replaced by someone who genuinely does give a damn about everything that made it great in the first place.
There are reasons why I think Moffat has failed as a showrunner and should have been shown the door or had his responsibilities curtailed in the past two years.

What you've said is not one of them. I don't think you can say with a straight face that Moffat doesn't care about Doctor Who. The man is passionate about Doctor Who. He genuinely cares, he genuinely tries, even if his execution falls short of his intentions.

I don't know why Moffat has played such a weak hand this year. I don't know if the BBC dealt him bad cards. I don't know if he was dealt good cards but misplayed them. I think it's probably a little bit of both. I'll say that while he made the best of what he had, what we've seen thus far is not what it could have been.

But I won't say that he doesn't give a damn. He cares about Doctor Who so much that he gave up Hollywood to work on it.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:41 PM   #85
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post

I don't know why Moffat has played such a weak hand this year. I don't know if the BBC dealt him bad cards. I don't know if he was dealt good cards but misplayed them. I think it's probably a little bit of both. I'll say that while he made the best of what he had, what we've seen thus far is not what it could have been.
I think I agree. It really should have been so much more for such a momentous occasion, but for whatever reason, it won't be, and a lot of fans will probably be quite disappointed when the special does air.

And I still maintain my firm belief that the long-term fans deserve a lot better by far.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:54 PM   #86
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

I do now recall reading a comment from Moffat saying "We didn't have enough money." So perhaps he did want to include a lot more, such as things and characters from the classic series, but just couldn't afford it, and was forced to drastically narrow the scope of the special down to the point it wasn't really a true acknowledgment of the last half-century. In that case, it's more the BBC's fault.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:55 PM   #87
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Noddy wrote: View Post
I think I agree. It really should have been so much more for such a momentous occasion, but for whatever reason, it won't be, and a lot of fans will probably be quite disappointed when the special does air.
I think you're probably right.

The BBC will probably take flack from many corners of fandom because the anniversary didn't match their expectations. Depending on the din, the media may pick up on it and run with it. The BBC may find itself on the defensive. The fallout in November/December would be interesting to watch.

It's probably for the best that Moffat isn't on Twitter anymore.

Noddy wrote: View Post
And I still maintain my firm belief that the long-term fans deserve a lot better by far.
I can't agree with that at all.
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Old September 29 2013, 04:06 PM   #88
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

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The BBC will probably take flack from many corners of fandom because the anniversary didn't match their expectations.
It's true, but the same can be said of almost any kind of television series or genre fiction with a strong following. That some people are disappointed and express their disappointed bitterly and loudly is to be expected in almost any circumstance and ultimately doesn't really mean much.
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Old September 29 2013, 04:09 PM   #89
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Noddy wrote: View Post
I think I agree. It really should have been so much more for such a momentous occasion, but for whatever reason, it won't be, and a lot of fans will probably be quite disappointed when the special does air.
I think you're probably right.

The BBC will probably take flack from many corners of fandom because the anniversary didn't match their expectations. Depending on the din, the media may pick up on it and run with it. The BBC may find itself on the defensive. The fallout in November/December would be interesting to watch.

It's probably for the best that Moffat isn't on Twitter anymore.

Noddy wrote: View Post
And I still maintain my firm belief that the long-term fans deserve a lot better by far.
I can't agree with that at all.
But you do agree that Moffat hasn't done the best he could have done at this time (which, I do concede, may not have been entirely his fault)?
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Old September 29 2013, 04:12 PM   #90
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Re: Why the lack of Classic characters?

Noddy wrote: View Post
But you do agree that Moffat hasn't done the best he could have done at this time (which, I do concede, may not have been entirely his fault)?
On that, I am agnostic. We simply don't know all of the factors that led us to this point -- and likely won't for a number of years. Therefore, I don't know if Moffat could have done more but didn't or if he wanted to do more but couldn't.
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