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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old September 29 2013, 01:39 AM   #136
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

To be honest, if people didn't keep pointing it out, I'd have forgotten he was in Fires of Pompeii. Torchwood:CoE is something I'd remember simply because it was such a long, memorable role, but Fires of Pompeii was a relatively brief role in a forgettable episode. Fires of Pompeii, imo, needs no explanation. CoE also needs no explanation because it's a different show, so reusing actors is more forgivable.

However, I'm all for anything done well, so, as long as it's done well, I don't care.
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Old September 29 2013, 02:00 AM   #137
The Wormhole
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I remember Russell [T Davies] told me that he had a big old plan as to why there were two Peter Capaldi’s in the Who universe: one in Pompeii and one in Torchwood.
Wouldn't that just be the time/space duplicity thing that explains why Gwen Cooper so similar to Gwyneth from The Unquiet Dead?
Was the connection between Gwen and Gwyneth ever explained on screen? Or was that something that the viewers knew because RTD had talked about it from time to time?
It was on screen. Journey's End, in the scene where everyone's in the console room getting ready to tow Earth back to the solar system. The Doctor contacts the Torchwood Hub, Gwen answers, appearing on the console's monitor screen and the Doctor and Rose recognize her with the Doctor explaining time/space duplicity.

Starkers wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Wouldn't that just be the time/space duplicity thing that explains why Gwen Cooper so similar to Gwyneth from The Unquiet Dead?
Was the connection between Gwen and Gwyneth ever explained on screen? Or was that something that the viewers knew because RTD had talked about it from time to time?

RTD may have had an explanation in mind for why Frobisher and Caecilius looked alike, but there was never a way of using that explanation within Children of Earth because 1) it wasn't relevant to the story and 2) it wouldn't have moved the story forward.

This sounds like Moffat wants to do something with the idea that these characters are connected. I can't think of anything more inward looking than explaining why the Doctor looks like a one-shot guest star from five years ago and a star of a spin-off series from four years ago.
Well Ten and Rose definitely comment on the fact that Gwen looks like Gwyneth, so this is another one of those things where it was ok for RTD to do it but not Moffat (That said I think it's a bad idea, and it was a bad idea before)
I accepted it when comparing Gwen and Gwyneth simply because it was a joke which they spent one minute on. That's a lot different than making it a plot point relevant to the season's arc, which is the implication I'm getting from the article about Capaldi's other two roles being relevant to the Twelfth Doctor's appearance.
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Old September 29 2013, 02:19 AM   #138
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I accepted it when comparing Gwen and Gwyneth simply because it was a joke which they spent one minute on. That's a lot different than making it a plot point relevant to the season's arc, which is the implication I'm getting from the article about Capaldi's other two roles being relevant to the Twelfth Doctor's appearance.
I've decided that I'm okay with this, but only one one condition.

Whatever ties Caecilius, Frobisher, and the twelfth Doctor together also ties together other Capaldi BBC roles including the Angel Islington (Neverwhere), Balthazar (The Nativity), Richelieu (the forthcoming The Musketeers), and Randall Brown (The Hour). I am deliberately leaving out Malcolm Tucker, as he would overlap with John Frobisher. All of these Capaldi characters team up, like aspects of the Eternal Champion, and kick the ass out of Rassilon.

That would make it okay.
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Old September 29 2013, 02:26 AM   #139
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I accepted it when comparing Gwen and Gwyneth simply because it was a joke which they spent one minute on. That's a lot different than making it a plot point relevant to the season's arc, which is the implication I'm getting from the article about Capaldi's other two roles being relevant to the Twelfth Doctor's appearance.
I've decided that I'm okay with this, but only one one condition.

Whatever ties Caecilius, Frobisher, and the twelfth Doctor together also ties together other Capaldi BBC roles including the Angel Islington (Neverwhere), Balthazar (The Nativity), Richelieu (the forthcoming The Musketeers), and Randall Brown (The Hour). I am deliberately leaving out Malcolm Tucker, as he would overlap with John Frobisher. All of these Capaldi characters team up, like aspects of the Eternal Champion, and kick the ass out of Rassilon.

That would make it okay.
Include Malcolm Tucker and I'm sold. Besides, eight Capaldi characters would make up for not bringing all eight of the living pre-Capaldi Doctors back for the 50th.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:16 AM   #140
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

The weird thing is that noone ever says we need to know why the Abbot of Amboise and Salamander look like the Doctor (or Nyssa/Ann, or Michael Sheard's six characters - three of them medical doctors... surely that can't be a coincidence? Must be some sort of destiny resonance! And is Bret Vyon a descedant of the Brig?)
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Old September 29 2013, 03:27 AM   #141
Gep Malakai
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
This sounds like Moffat wants to do something with the idea that these characters are connected. I can't think of anything more inward looking than explaining why the Doctor looks like a one-shot guest star from five years ago and a star of a spin-off series from four years ago.
It's the same kind of incestuous bullshit that heralded the end of televised Star Trek; once you've got entire storylines dedicated to explaining away quirks of production, you're out of ideas.

I got my hopes up when I heard this originated with RTD. I got my hopes dashed once I read what it actually was.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:49 AM   #142
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
It's the same kind of incestuous bullshit that heralded the end of televised Star Trek; once you've got entire storylines dedicated to explaining away quirks of production, you're out of ideas.
Although, let's face it, a lot of that is driven by fans obsessing over continuity and inconsistencies and production details like the same actor playing different roles. Heck, Trek fans back in the '70s were spinning elaborate theories about the family relationships between Number One and Chapel, the Romulan Commander and Sarek, probably even Trelane and Koloth.

It's not so much that the production has run out of ideas as that the continuity-obsessed fans have grown up to become the showrunners and are finally getting to put their ideas and theories into the show itself. Once Star Trek began to be produced by people who'd grown up being Trek fans, starting with Ron Moore on TNG, we started to see more and more episodes built around tying together old continuity threads. And now the same thing is happening in Doctor Who, and not only on Moffat's part. Neil Gaiman's episodes were pure fanwank -- they just happened to be fanwank on the level of Neil Gaiman's writing.
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Old October 3 2013, 09:17 PM   #143
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

My slow brain thought that you were shipping Sarek and female Romulan commander from the Enterprise Incident.

Got it now.
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Old October 3 2013, 09:21 PM   #144
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
My slow braint thought that you were shipping Sarek and female Romulan commander from the Enterprise Incident.

Got it now.
You just made T'Bonz squee. Or would have if she visited this forum.
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