RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,587
Posts: 5,403,847
Members: 24,867
Currently online: 657
Newest member: jack@gerryander

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: Gold Key Archives Vol. 2 Comic
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

Cumberbatch In War Of Roses Miniseries
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

Trek 3 Filming Location Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old September 28 2013, 08:01 AM   #1
James T Kirk
Ensign
 
The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

Ok so for a while he had you believing that he was a just mis-guided guy trying to erase a really bad mistake.

Then he turned into a horrific sociopathic villain.

"If it makes you feel any better... I was never going to spare your crew".

Ok so how did this guy become an Admiral?

The only even remotely possible reason he could have for destroying the Enterprise would be to stop word from getting out of what he had done, but would a Starfleet Admiral really behave this way?

The character just doesnt make any sense at all.
James T Kirk is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 08:15 AM   #2
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

It makes perfect sense to me. Plan A was to ignite a war with the Klingons. But once blown, Kirk and his crew had to die to keep Marcus' plan from becoming public knowledge.

And, have you ever seen The Original Series? I think back then Starfleet hired people on the edge of sanity - Decker, Tracy, Garth etc.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 09:27 AM   #3
ComicGuy89
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

James T Kirk wrote: View Post
The only even remotely possible reason he could have for destroying the Enterprise would be to stop word from getting out of what he had done, but would a Starfleet Admiral really behave this way?
There's your answer right there.

The admiral was not just trying to erase a really bad mistake. He was a warmongering sociopath that was itching to have an excuse to wipe out the Klingons.

Star Trek has a history of insane or evil (or both) admirals. Even just counting the "classic" movies, you have Cartwright and Dougherty, one from each era.

As TVTropes so succinctly summed up their list of insane admirals:

Really, the list of admirals in Star Trek who are not either insane or talking heads giving generic orders off a viewscreen is awfully short.
ComicGuy89 is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 11:09 AM   #4
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
--Captain James T. Kirk, "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

It could be said that some Starfleet admirals have too much power, and even in the time of the Federation, the temptation to abuse that power can be too great for some (especially if they think what they're doing is for the greater good and the Federation is too idealistic and namby-pamby to do what needs to be done).

However, I think for one admiral that goes off the rails, hundreds (if not thousands) of others do not. But because quite a few admirals have become extremists over the past century or so, it can make the admiralty look somewhat bad from a historical perspective (a few bad apples souring the entire barrel of otherwise good ones).
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 02:43 PM   #5
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Police State
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

James T Kirk wrote: View Post
Ok so for a while he had you believing that he was a just mis-guided guy trying to erase a really bad mistake.
No.
__________________
Thank you very much for your concern, sir, but he does not need your religion, he has science and socialism and birthdays.
Set Harth is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 03:00 PM   #6
Captain_Amasov
Captain
 
Captain_Amasov's Avatar
 
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

Vice Admiral Leyton attempted a military takeover of Earth, and he was meant to be from the bright and shiny 24th century Starfleet too.
Captain_Amasov is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 03:13 PM   #7
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Out There...That Away
View SeerSGB's Twitter Profile
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It makes perfect sense to me. Plan A was to ignite a war with the Klingons. But once blown, Kirk and his crew had to die to keep Marcus' plan from becoming public knowledge.

And, have you ever seen The Original Series? I think back then Starfleet hired people on the edge of sanity - Decker, Tracy, Garth etc.
I think Plan A from the get go was to frag the Enterprise; hence taking out her warp drive. Kirk kills Khan, Marcus kills Kirk, "Those Klingon bastards launched a terrorist attack on Earth and destroyed the Federation flagship!"
__________________
- SeerSGB -
"I've made many mistakes, and it's about time that I did something about that." The Doctor (Deep Breath)
| Blog | Homepage |
SeerSGB is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 04:42 PM   #8
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

James T Kirk wrote: View Post
Ok so for a while he had you believing that he was a just mis-guided guy trying to erase a really bad mistake.

Then he turned into a horrific sociopathic villain.

"If it makes you feel any better... I was never going to spare your crew".

Ok so how did this guy become an Admiral?

The only even remotely possible reason he could have for destroying the Enterprise would be to stop word from getting out of what he had done, but would a Starfleet Admiral really behave this way?

The character just doesnt make any sense at all.
Was Into Darkness your first experience with Star Trek?
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 04:58 PM   #9
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Out There...That Away
View SeerSGB's Twitter Profile
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

A pretty good analog to Marcus is Cartwright. Cartwright backed political assaination, set Kirk up to take the fall, and was ready to kill the Federation President all in the name of keeping the Federation safe.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
"I've made many mistakes, and it's about time that I did something about that." The Doctor (Deep Breath)
| Blog | Homepage |
SeerSGB is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 05:13 PM   #10
Makarov
Commander
 
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

I really think they should have taken out the "I was never going to spare your crew" line. The only reason that's in there is to dumb it down, and tell the audience, here's the bad guy. It ruins the wonderful ambiguity that they just set up.
Makarov is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 05:18 PM   #11
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

Nah, its a good villain moment.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 05:46 PM   #12
Makarov
Commander
 
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

It'd be better if he just cut the viewscreen and fired after Kirk's apology. Or really any other line would have been better, because it's so cliche.
Makarov is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 07:45 PM   #13
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

The more important thing here is why no one else has ever used the username James T Kirk until now.
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Dukhat is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 10:21 PM   #14
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

Dukhat wrote: View Post
The more important thing here is why no one else has ever used the username James T Kirk until now.
Variations of it has been used before.

James T. Kirk
James_T_Kirk

Haven't seen them in ages though...
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline  
Old September 28 2013, 11:25 PM   #15
Opus
Commodore
 
Opus's Avatar
 
Location: Bloom County
Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

This wasn't too hard to follow:

Marcus sends Kirk and the Enterprise to the edge of Klingon Space to fire torpedoes into a supposed barren area of Kronos (Qu'onos). A secret computer virus is implanted in the ship's computer by Section 31 to disable Enterprise while out there. Enterprise fires torpedoes. Klingons find Enterprise disabled. Klingons destroy Enterprise and the war Marcus wants begins.

Marcus was never going to spare Enterprise' crew. He sent them to slaughter to begin with.
__________________
Now that I've seen it, and have also had time to mellow, to really think about it, I now find it absolutely, unbearably repulsive in every way except for some of the acting. - about The Wrath of Khan. Interstat, Issue 62: 1982
Opus is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.