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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old September 27 2013, 11:54 AM   #586
grendelsbayne
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

[QUOTE=Belz...;8697079]
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Don't listen to us: just do the series you want to do, and the ratings will speak for themselves.
Of course, the problem with that is if the ratings really suck, you're suddenly in a serious race against time trying to salvage something before the whole enterprise implodes because no one's willing to watch it anymore.

And every time that happens, it makes studios a little less likely to be interested in trying again in the future.
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Old September 27 2013, 12:23 PM   #587
Sindatur
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

[QUOTE=grendelsbayne;8697253]
Belz... wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Don't listen to us: just do the series you want to do, and the ratings will speak for themselves.
Of course, the problem with that is if the ratings really suck, you're suddenly in a serious race against time trying to salvage something before the whole enterprise implodes because no one's willing to watch it anymore.

And every time that happens, it makes studios a little less likely to be interested in trying again in the future.
The problem is, the "Core" fans are too small an audience, so, if you're doing so poorly that you need to bow down to them, you have already lost, it's already too late.
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Old September 27 2013, 12:45 PM   #588
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

[QUOTE=Sindatur;8697295]
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post

Of course, the problem with that is if the ratings really suck, you're suddenly in a serious race against time trying to salvage something before the whole enterprise implodes because no one's willing to watch it anymore.

And every time that happens, it makes studios a little less likely to be interested in trying again in the future.
The problem is, the "Core" fans are too small an audience, so, if you're doing so poorly that you need to down to them, you have already lost, it's already too late.
And that's assuming you have 100% of their support. Say you're down to the core fans, what do you do when you have only 50% or so that already small number backing you?
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Old September 27 2013, 01:37 PM   #589
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

A few posts referenced GRR Martin, which got me thinking.

Some fans like the TOS era, others like the Abrams era, some like the TNG\DS9\VOY era, and believe it or not, some like the ENT era (mor specifically, people wanting to see the Romulan War). Some have even wanted a Klingon show, or a show in the mirror universe show.

I think what might be a fun and fresh approach to Star Trek, is a show that is sort of an anthology of miniseries, depicting different crews, maybe in different timelines or time periods, or maybe even mirror universe. Each miniseries being different stories, moving forward in their own time period and\or time line, each seeming to be unrelated at first, until later a common thread is revealed. Fringe sort of flirted with this concept, and Game of Thrones is sort of doing that right now. Put another way, what if you took the outline similar to ALL Good Things, and expanded it to a show, and ran with it?

With a format like that, during a season you could have multiple mini-series within a season.

For example:

Episodes 1-4 a post Nemesis era set in prime universe and prior to the destruction of Romulus with a crew assigned to facilitate relations with the Romulans. You could even have cameos of TNG\DS9\VOY actors in this era.

Episodes 5-8 a story centering around post ENT era, maybe centered on the Romulan Wars, possibly featuring the ENT crew or another crew (IE NX-02 Columbia), with ENT cast members making cameos.

Episodes 9-13 centering on Abramsverse events after the destruction of Vulcan, and their efforts to establish New Vulcan, and the fall out towards Romulans and\or Klingons within the Federation. Perhaps featuring characters like Captain Pike, the new actor playing Sarek, Admiral Marcus or other minor characters from Star Trek '09/ID, and possibly even having cameos of the Abramsverse Enterprise Crew.

Episodes 14-16 feature a Klingon ship and crew, maybe 5-10 years after TUC. Maybe the Khitomer Accords from the Klingon POV, and how Klingons adjusted from viewing the Federation as enemies to allies, and how the Romulans react to it (IE setting up for the Khitomer Massacre). You could feature the Crew of the Excelsior...would be nice if there were a Captain Sulu, but could work without him.

Episodes 17-19 Mirror universe episode, maybe set in between the ENT and TOS era, depicting how the Terran Empire is doing during or shortly after the reign of Empress Hoshi, with new characters.

Episodes 20-24 Set in the 25 century or beyond, within a third timeline. Perhaps something akin to the "Time Police" from Voyager, with all new characters. In any event, these episodes start to tie all the timelines\Time Periods\Mirror universe together.

This way, you give fans of various eras what they want, yet respect both timelines, and possibly create a third timeline or prime universe time period for TV.
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Old September 27 2013, 02:16 PM   #590
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Way too expensive.

Part of the reason we get such great sets is because they can spread those costs out over the course of a season.
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Old September 27 2013, 03:07 PM   #591
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Way too expensive.

Part of the reason we get such great sets is because they can spread those costs out over the course of a season.
Yea, it could be a great show for us fans to watch, but, there's no way they could afford to accommodate sets for all those different settings.
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Old September 27 2013, 03:38 PM   #592
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
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Sindatur wrote: View Post
Now that you understand how the process works, we expect all your future Trek Tie-in Books, that you will post the Spec you are given to write from, so the Trek Fans can guide you to write it properly, and then post your finished product so we can have first crack at editing it, to ensure you did it right
Which will obviously make the process go much more smoothly!

On a more serious note, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "the Spec you are given to write from." That's not really how it works. I'm not given a plot outline and asked to write it. It's more like I come up with a proposal/outline which is submitted to the Powers That Be for approval and comments.
Ah, OK, sorry about that
No problem. I was only belaboring the point because, in general, there sometimes seems to be some confusion about how the process works. And people occasionally seem to be under the impression that there's a lot more central planning involved than there actually is.

It's not like a TV series where there's a showrunner dictating the plotlines to the writing staff. Instead it's usually just a herd of scattered freelancers pitching ideas and outlines, which may or may not be approved by the licensor.
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Old September 27 2013, 04:47 PM   #593
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

[QUOTE=Sindatur;8697295]
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
The problem is, the "Core" fans are too small an audience, so, if you're doing so poorly that you need to bow down to them, you have already lost, it's already too late.
That's fair enough, but it would seem to me the concept of listening to your audience entails a bit more than just blindly accepting whatever the 'Core' fans say they want. It's already been pointed out that there is clearly a difference between listening to your audience and allowing them to control everything you do. And I'll add to that that the 'core' fans don't constitute the entire audience, either, just a part of it.
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Old September 27 2013, 05:00 PM   #594
Sindatur
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

[QUOTE=grendelsbayne;8697925]
Sindatur wrote: View Post
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
The problem is, the "Core" fans are too small an audience, so, if you're doing so poorly that you need to bow down to them, you have already lost, it's already too late.
That's fair enough, but it would seem to me the concept of listening to your audience entails a bit more than just blindly accepting whatever the 'Core' fans say they want. It's already been pointed out that there is clearly a difference between listening to your audience and allowing them to control everything you do. And I'll add to that that the 'core' fans don't constitute the entire audience, either, just a part of it.
The "core" audience are the only ones that are going to try to dictate to you how the show should be done. Just about everyone else is either going to watch it and be happy or stop watching, so, you can only assume, that whatever was happening on the show when they bailed, was the wrong thing to do (Or if the audience grew it was the right thing to do).

You'll also have the folks who want to complain about political points, such as people whining about how they're not going to watch the show anymore because of the addition of a Gay character (And most of those complainers don't actually watch the show, they're just Zealots against Gays who pretend to be disgruntled viewers to make it appear viewers are pissed) or other similarly hot political buttons. But the General audience isn't really going to give you much feedback other than watching or not watching
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Old September 27 2013, 05:36 PM   #595
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
A few posts referenced GRR Martin, which got me thinking.

Some fans like the TOS era, others like the Abrams era, some like the TNG\DS9\VOY era, and believe it or not, some like the ENT era (mor specifically, people wanting to see the Romulan War). Some have even wanted a Klingon show, or a show in the mirror universe show.

I think what might be a fun and fresh approach to Star Trek, is a show that is sort of an anthology of miniseries, depicting different crews, maybe in different timelines or time periods, or maybe even mirror universe. Each miniseries being different stories, moving forward in their own time period and\or time line, each seeming to be unrelated at first ....


....


This way, you give fans of various eras what they want, yet respect both timelines, and possibly create a third timeline or prime universe time period for TV.
All that would do temporarily appease a small minority of elitist and cantankerious Trek "fans", and confuse the crap out of everyone else, further alienating future potential viewers.
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Old September 28 2013, 01:01 PM   #596
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Way too expensive.

Part of the reason we get such great sets is because they can spread those costs out over the course of a season.
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Yea, it could be a great show for us fans to watch, but, there's no way they could afford to accommodate sets for all those different settings.
Not when most of the action takes place on the bridge. Sure there is an initial start up cost, but once it is built, you can reuse, or even redress it for other scenes. I mean if fan based internet series can afford to create near exact duplicates of the TOS Enterprise Bridge, surely a studio with deeper pockets can create multiple bridges, some of which could even be redressed and reused.

I mean if Game of Thrones can be produced....

anh165 wrote: View Post
All that would do temporarily appease a small minority of elitist and cantankerious Trek "fans", and confuse the crap out of everyone else, further alienating future potential viewers.
I am not saying that my idea is the greatest idea, just throwing it out there, and it's all good if other people don't like it for any reason. But too complicated? Man you must think most people are really stupid, and have the comprehension of a 5 year old.

This is a plot that isn't any more complicated than Terminator or Xmen movie. People understood shows with copmplicated mythologies like Xfiles, Dexter, Breaking Bad, True Blood, BSG, Lost, Game of Thrones, Fringe, and even Stargate SG-1, as well as the plots of Star Trek '09 and All Good Things just fine.

In fact, I think the problem with most TV, especially network TV, is that it ISN'T complex enough, and isn't written interestingly enough. In fact, isn't that the complaint of the detractors of the 22nd and 24th century era Star Trek? It was too bland?

Just my opinion, but I say make it a Bad Robot production, hire people like Ronald D Moore, Joss Whedon, JMS, and Manny Coto as consultants, and you could end up with a well-written and interesting show that people would watch, fans and non fans alike. You can set each era up without going too deeply into the history of say Nemesis, Enterprise, or TUC, themselves. Voyager did that with Flashback, for example. The trick is developing a story and characters people will care about.
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Old September 30 2013, 03:05 AM   #597
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Take place just on the Bridge? Is there going to be something on the viewscreen and out in space? Are you going to have a full bridge crew? Not go out in shuttles or have transporter or other effects? Yes, when you sart up a show, you often get a bigger budget for the Pilot, but, that Pilot Budget needs to build everything you're going to use in the first 5 - 9 episodes, or you're gonna have no cast or nothing but Bottle shows.

Professional American TV Productions are expensive, especially with effects and set dressing and Long hours, paying overtime on effects houses as well as personnel inhouse (Cast and Crew, Writers, etc), makeup, etc.

You could probably redress the sets after a Season or maybe at a mid season break, but, to bounce around between 3 or different ships and crew week after week. I believe that is going to be far more expensive then attractive for the expected viewers/ratings (HBO and many of the Pay Cable Channels, for instance probably wouldn't want it without soft core sex and/or foul language, and Star Trek isn't likely to be an "R" series, especially not if it's the only Trek Series running, maybe if there was more than one running. Commercial Network or Basic Cable isn't going to have a healthy budget of $3+ Million an episode
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