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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old September 27 2013, 12:20 AM   #151
gblews
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

R. Star wrote: View Post
Go back and read the sentence again.
I did. I don't know what you meant, but what you actually wrote compares all of DS9 and it's 7 seasons of "taking chances" to all of TNG, Voy, but inexplicably, only the first two seasons of Ent. Sounds like you're cherry picking to make DS9 look like the only one of the spins that took chances when in reality, Ent took more chances than any of the spins and TOS too for that matter. If you compare DS9 to all of Ent (as opposed to just the first two seasons), there is no way Ent could not be seen as at least as innovative as DS9 if not outright more innovative.
I said Enterprise's first two seasons were safe and predictable and thus bland and boring. I excluded seasons 3 and 4 because they at least tried something.
Right, we know that now, but that's not what your "sentence" (nor the rest of your original post) stated. If it had, I wouldn't have felt the need to respond.
Personally I think the Xindi arc had way too many filler episodes, wanted to facepalm at space Nazi's, thought the Romulan super remote ship was silly at best and let's not even go to TATV.. but they made the effort to do something and most of the series' good episodes came from those seasons. Sad thing was the damage was done and most people(myself included at the time of the original airing) had already given up on it in the first two seasons.
Um yes, but what does any of this have to do with taking, or not taking chances (which is the subject at hand)?
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Old September 27 2013, 12:52 AM   #152
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

FWIW I understood R. Star's meaning just fine. It was a contrast between DS9 and the other series. He didn't include the latter two seasons of ENT because he didn't consider them a contrast worth noting. I.e. while TNG, etc. did things one way, DS9 and later ENT didn't.
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Old September 27 2013, 01:10 AM   #153
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

R. Star wrote: View Post
Hey, DS9 certainly had it's clunkers and face palm moments. Little gremlins and Quark in drag are certainly two of the big ones.

But I'll take that knowing that hey at least DS9 was willing to take chances, and is making the effort as opposed to TNG sticking to the same formula, Voyager staying safe by not straying too far from it either, and ENT's first two seasons where things were just cheap imitations.

Yes, Neelix is the ultimate example of the annoying character. DS9 at least improved their annoying character when they realized the fans weren't liking Bashir. When confronted with the fans not liking Neelix, it's like Voyager's staff said... "Screw you! Here's -more- Neelix!"
Folks can say what they like about Enterprise, but ENT seasons 1 & 2 were stronger that both VOY and DS9 seasons 1 & 2. Especially DS9's.
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Old September 27 2013, 03:14 AM   #154
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

Yanks wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Hey, DS9 certainly had it's clunkers and face palm moments. Little gremlins and Quark in drag are certainly two of the big ones.

But I'll take that knowing that hey at least DS9 was willing to take chances, and is making the effort as opposed to TNG sticking to the same formula, Voyager staying safe by not straying too far from it either, and ENT's first two seasons where things were just cheap imitations.

Yes, Neelix is the ultimate example of the annoying character. DS9 at least improved their annoying character when they realized the fans weren't liking Bashir. When confronted with the fans not liking Neelix, it's like Voyager's staff said... "Screw you! Here's -more- Neelix!"
Folks can say what they like about Enterprise, but ENT seasons 1 & 2 were stronger that both VOY and DS9 seasons 1 & 2. Especially DS9's.
I couldn't disagree more, DS9s first 2 seasons had episodes like

Captive Pursuit
Duet
In the Hands of the Prophets
The Homecoming
The Circle
The Siege
Cardassians
Necessary Evil
Whispers
Profit and Loss
Blood Oath
The Maquis two parter
The Wire
Crossover
The Jem'Hadar

Which are all better then any ENT episode from the first 2 seasons. I would also say that VOYs

Phage
Eye of the Needle
Projections
Meld
Death Wish
The Thaw

Are better then any ENT episode from the first 2 seasons.
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Old September 27 2013, 03:31 AM   #155
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

Yanks is entitled his opinion. I can't say I share it mind, and I also would really have a hard time picking an episode from the first two seasons of Enterprise that stood out. I guess the Andorian Incident was pretty good and I liked the minor bit of continuity between Minefield and Dead Stop.
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Old September 27 2013, 03:51 AM   #156
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

I can pick episodes from the first two seasons of ENT that I enjoyed, and by no means do I think DS9's first two seasons were epic television, but on balance I think early DS9 fared better than early ENT.
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Old September 27 2013, 03:54 AM   #157
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

R. Star wrote: View Post
Yanks is entitled his opinion. I can't say I share it mind, and I also would really have a hard time picking an episode from the first two seasons of Enterprise that stood out. I guess the Andorian Incident was pretty good and I liked the minor bit of continuity between Minefield and Dead Stop.
I do think the first 2 seasons are pretty consistent but unfortunately they're consistently average, nothing really terrible but nothing really great either.
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Old September 27 2013, 06:12 AM   #158
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

I was so enamored with being on a space station that the somewhat directionless first two seasons of DS9 were enchanting to me.
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Old September 27 2013, 06:22 AM   #159
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

The best episodes were In a Mirror Darkly....Or the episode where Archer is transported 400 years in the future to see the "Enterprise J ship" and told about the Temporal Wars and the Federation
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Old September 27 2013, 07:48 AM   #160
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

I love the future, I wish we got to see the far distant future more often. Enough with all this cowboys and Victorian era sentiment. We saw the future in VOY's Relativity and ENT's Azati Prime. Did we see it any other time? The future as in purportedly mankind's future some centuries hence, not just a series of alternate realities.
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Old September 27 2013, 10:34 AM   #161
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

Yanks wrote: View Post
Folks can say what they like about Enterprise, but ENT seasons 1 & 2 were stronger that both VOY and DS9 seasons 1 & 2. Especially DS9's.
DS9's first two seasons were meh IMO, but VOY's were prety much terrible. I caught some reruns on TV a few years ago, and I was stunned at how bad they actually were.

TNG's first two seasons were utter shit as well, and I'm with you on this one, compared to all this, ENT's seasons 1 & 2 aren't that bad at all...

Season 2 gets a lot of hate, but that's mostly because of the "shit-stain arc" (A Night in Sickbay, Marauders, The Seventh, The Communicator, Singularity, Vanishing Point, Precious Cargo, The Catwalk, Dawn, might as well throw in Stigma). There are some real gems there too (Carbon Creek, Minefield, First Flight).
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Old September 27 2013, 12:42 PM   #162
Yanks
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

BruntFCA wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Hey, DS9 certainly had it's clunkers and face palm moments. Little gremlins and Quark in drag are certainly two of the big ones.

But I'll take that knowing that hey at least DS9 was willing to take chances, and is making the effort as opposed to TNG sticking to the same formula, Voyager staying safe by not straying too far from it either, and ENT's first two seasons where things were just cheap imitations.

Yes, Neelix is the ultimate example of the annoying character. DS9 at least improved their annoying character when they realized the fans weren't liking Bashir. When confronted with the fans not liking Neelix, it's like Voyager's staff said... "Screw you! Here's -more- Neelix!"
Folks can say what they like about Enterprise, but ENT seasons 1 & 2 were stronger that both VOY and DS9 seasons 1 & 2. Especially DS9's.
I couldn't disagree more, DS9s first 2 seasons had episodes like

Captive Pursuit
Duet
In the Hands of the Prophets
The Homecoming
The Circle
The Siege
Cardassians
Necessary Evil
Whispers
Profit and Loss
Blood Oath
The Maquis two parter
The Wire
Crossover
The Jem'Hadar

Which are all better then any ENT episode from the first 2 seasons. I would also say that VOYs

Phage
Eye of the Needle
Projections
Meld
Death Wish
The Thaw

Are better then any ENT episode from the first 2 seasons.
That's cool. Maybe I should word that differently.

As a whole, they are stronger than them. DS9 had a LOT of skippers. More than ENT and VOY.
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Old September 27 2013, 12:47 PM   #163
Yanks
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

Mach5 wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
Folks can say what they like about Enterprise, but ENT seasons 1 & 2 were stronger that both VOY and DS9 seasons 1 & 2. Especially DS9's.
DS9's first two seasons were meh IMO, but VOY's were prety much terrible. I caught some reruns on TV a few years ago, and I was stunned at how bad they actually were.

TNG's first two seasons were utter shit as well, and I'm with you on this one, compared to all this, ENT's seasons 1 & 2 aren't that bad at all...

Season 2 gets a lot of hate, but that's mostly because of the "shit-stain arc" (A Night in Sickbay, Marauders, The Seventh, The Communicator, Singularity, Vanishing Point, Precious Cargo, The Catwalk, Dawn, might as well throw in Stigma). There are some real gems there too (Carbon Creek, Minefield, First Flight).
My tastes are a little different than yours. I'm not near as hard on ENT Season 2.

Of those you listed, I would only put ANIS and Dawn down as stinkers.

But I'm glad that someone else see's what I see. As you said, especially comparing to TNG.

I'm a huge trek fans and I almost quit watching DS9 early on. (glad I stuck with it though)
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Old September 27 2013, 12:56 PM   #164
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

Let's face it, you gotta have stamina for season one anything. Especially in the era of 22+ episodes a season. Sit back, wait for it to grow.
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Old September 27 2013, 02:55 PM   #165
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Re: Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!

teacake wrote: View Post
Let's face it, you gotta have stamina for season one anything. Especially in the era of 22+ episodes a season. Sit back, wait for it to grow.
Here here. To think I almost gave up on Farscape, mid season 1...
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