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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old September 26 2013, 08:56 PM   #1
SignGuyHPW
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Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

If the Borg had attempted to invade The Dominion and assimilate them could they have done so with The Founders? Would shape shifters had produced shape shifting Borg? Would the attempt not hold when they reverted to their natural state?
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Old September 26 2013, 10:32 PM   #2
bbjeg
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

There would by a microscopic fight between shifting cells and adapting nanoprobes that i think the changleing would win but not quickly.
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Old September 27 2013, 12:14 AM   #3
wingsabre
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

When the Borg tried to assimilate Species 8472, they had a hard time doing so because the tissue structure was too dense. I think a Changeling would be able to change their structure on a microscopic level and be dense enough to destroy the nanites. Changelings don't really have cells, or at least that's what we seem to be lead to believe.
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Old September 27 2013, 02:29 AM   #4
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

SignGuyHPW wrote: View Post
If the Borg had attempted to invade The Dominion and assimilate them could they have done so with The Founders? Would shape shifters had produced shape shifting Borg? Would the attempt not hold when they reverted to their natural state?
Could the Founders modify the Jem'hadar's DNA to resist assimilation? I would assume that would be there frontline defense.
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Old September 27 2013, 02:50 AM   #5
Sran
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

wingsabre wrote: View Post
When the Borg tried to assimilate Species 8472, they had a hard time doing so because the tissue structure was too dense. I think a Changeling would be able to change their structure on a microscopic level and be dense enough to destroy the nanites. Changelings don't really have cells, or at least that's what we seem to be lead to believe.
Careful with wording. They're nanoprobes, not nanites. Nanites were part of an experiment by Wesley Crusher gone awry.

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Old September 27 2013, 03:19 AM   #6
R. Star
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

wingsabre wrote: View Post
When the Borg tried to assimilate Species 8472, they had a hard time doing so because the tissue structure was too dense. I think a Changeling would be able to change their structure on a microscopic level and be dense enough to destroy the nanites. Changelings don't really have cells, or at least that's what we seem to be lead to believe.
That's pretty much exactly what happened in one of the novels.
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Old October 3 2013, 09:19 AM   #7
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

Short-term - the founders can withstand assimilation.
Long-term - the borg adapt their nanoprobes* to assimilate the founders (the founder may be able to turn into water, etc, but if that was only water - not something far more complex masquerading as water - the founder would not be able to think, act, etc).

*Nanoprobes can assimilate not only organics, but also machines made by dense materials, etc. With 8472 the nanoprobes had problems with the immune system, not density of the tissue.
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Old October 3 2013, 09:55 AM   #8
Tosk
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

Founders can change into fog. ...And rocks. Good luck, Borg.
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Old October 3 2013, 10:05 AM   #9
bbjeg
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

^And fire in some cases.
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Old October 3 2013, 10:05 AM   #10
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

As said, if the founders were merely fog, rocks, fire (as opposed to being complex beings masquerading as fog, rocks, etc), the founders would not be able to think, act, etc.
Give the nanoprobes enough time to adapt by trial and error and they'll find where this complexity hides. And then, it's bye-bye founders.
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Old October 3 2013, 06:10 PM   #11
Seven of Five
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

Borg Founders. Now there's some serious shit. Why hasn't this happened yet?
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Old October 3 2013, 08:13 PM   #12
bbjeg
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
As said, if the founders were merely fog, rocks, fire (as opposed to being complex beings masquerading as fog, rocks, etc), the founders would not be able to think, act, etc.
Give the nanoprobes enough time to adapt by trial and error and they'll find where this complexity hides. And then, it's bye-bye founders.
I'm sure they can think. When Laas was fog and was asked to stop, he did. Plus Odo turns into the objects in his quarters all the time and still remembers to turn back before his shifts. In the first few episodes he listened in on conversations as cups of liquids and broke out of a locker as a bag that was filled and zipped up.
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Old October 4 2013, 12:09 AM   #13
Pondwater
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

The Founders are more that Limey aware of the Borg and may have develop some virus.
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Old October 4 2013, 01:14 AM   #14
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
As said, if the founders were merely fog, rocks, fire (as opposed to being complex beings masquerading as fog, rocks, etc), the founders would not be able to think, act, etc.
When a Founder masquerades as something, it is completely indistinguishable from that thing. I can only assume, then if one of them changes into something that has no cells, like water or fog, then there would be nothing for the Borg nanoprobes to 'lock on' to.

If a Founder is posing as a human, and is attacked by a Borg, then they would have plenty of time to shape shift into something that could resist assimilation.
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Old October 4 2013, 09:20 AM   #15
Nightdiamond
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Re: Could the Borg assimilate The Founders?

The problem for the Founder is, once the Borg figures out they have a regeneration cycle, they'd probably exploit that.

Having to revert to a liquid 18 hours or so, or not being able to totally maintain a solid shape indefinitely, is something of a weakness for the Founders.

This weakness has been exploited at 3 separate times.
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