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Old September 25 2013, 07:06 PM   #31
DonIago
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Re: Equinox

That could still mean the time crunch was a couple of days or so.

I'm just saying we don't have enough evidence from the episode to draw any specific conclusions as to the details, but while I'll admit it's possible and perhaps likely that some people may have died during the situation, calling Sisko a murderer (especially in comparison to Ransom) seems a bit overwrought.
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Old September 25 2013, 07:15 PM   #32
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Re: Equinox

DonIago wrote: View Post
That could still mean the time crunch was a couple of days or so.

I'm just saying we don't have enough evidence from the episode to draw any specific conclusions as to the details, but while I'll admit it's possible and perhaps likely that some people may have died during the situation, calling Sisko a murderer (especially in comparison to Ransom) seems a bit overwrought.
I think there's more than enough in that episode, to conclude that there was definately an extreme time crunch to evacuate. Even just the reactions of everyone else, if there was no time crunch would they have been as upset about the decision?
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Old September 25 2013, 07:22 PM   #33
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Re: Equinox

To be honest, Equinox is one of my favourite episodes of Star Trek, partly due to the controversy surrounding it and also due to the fact that....I actually agree and sympathize with Janeway in it.

In her situation, I think I would have been just as personally affronted as she was. Of course her actions were not right, perhaps not even ethical....but I think she was justified.
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Old September 25 2013, 07:45 PM   #34
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Re: Equinox

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
To be honest, Equinox is one of my favourite episodes of Star Trek, partly due to the controversy surrounding it and also due to the fact that....I actually agree and sympathize with Janeway in it.

In her situation, I think I would have been just as personally affronted as she was. Of course her actions were not right, perhaps not even ethical....but I think she was justified.
So it's alright to break humanity's virtues by giving in to thoughts of revenge and murder when someone breaks humanity's virtues?
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Old September 25 2013, 08:02 PM   #35
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Re: Equinox

R. Star wrote: View Post
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
To be honest, Equinox is one of my favourite episodes of Star Trek, partly due to the controversy surrounding it and also due to the fact that....I actually agree and sympathize with Janeway in it.

In her situation, I think I would have been just as personally affronted as she was. Of course her actions were not right, perhaps not even ethical....but I think she was justified.
So it's alright to break humanity's virtues by giving in to thoughts of revenge and murder when someone breaks humanity's virtues?
she didn't give into murder, she never actually killed someone, and we don't know if she would have. I don't think she would have gone that far. And her thoughts and actions were not about revenge, it was entirely different
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Old September 25 2013, 10:51 PM   #36
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Re: Equinox

R. Star wrote: View Post
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
To be honest, Equinox is one of my favourite episodes of Star Trek, partly due to the controversy surrounding it and also due to the fact that....I actually agree and sympathize with Janeway in it.

In her situation, I think I would have been just as personally affronted as she was. Of course her actions were not right, perhaps not even ethical....but I think she was justified.
So it's alright to break humanity's virtues by giving in to thoughts of revenge and murder when someone breaks humanity's virtues?
No, I find what you are saying to be melodramatic. She apprehended one of her own species who was comiting genocide, along with a crew who complied with it.

She was justified in using force to stop further deaths. The political repurcussions for the UFP also have to be taken into account.
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Old September 26 2013, 12:15 AM   #37
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Re: Equinox

Sisko gave them an hour to get off the planet.

They imagined that his balls with tiny.

The Maquis were in error.

Ranson hunted and vivisected many space dolphins, and needed to juice another 62 to get his rapidly diminishing crew home.
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Old September 26 2013, 01:30 AM   #38
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Re: Equinox

I wonder if the juice was studied once they got back to Earth. Seems like synthesizing/creating it would lead to some big breakthroughs. OR would they refuse to use this data since it was gained through unethical means.
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Old September 26 2013, 02:13 AM   #39
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Re: Equinox

Jeez, don't you people have Netflix? The Trilithium resin would make "the planet uninhabitable for the next 50 years". That's the exact quote. And he gives them an hour's notice which they choose to ignore. That said, straight after he fires the torpedoes, Kira mentions that the Marquis are scrambling transport ships to evacuate the planet. Honestly, we never ever see the Marquis in groups larger than maybe 30 or 40 people. A colony of theirs probably only numbers in the hundreds. All Sisko really did was poison the well - sure, people need water to live, but if they don't drink it they won't get sick, they were free to go somewhere else and they did. It's just Sisko playing to the theatrics Eddington was using. He cast Sisko as the bad guy, so Sisko acted like one - with a big bombastic gesture of "evil" - he poisoned an entire planet full of people. But the people could leave at any point they wished. If Sisko was a real evil bastard, he'd have fired on the evacuating transports, but he didn't. He wasn't really being bad, he just wanted to look it.


Now, Janeway? Funnily enough I watched Equinox the other day (again - Netflix - Its real handy like!) She was acting out of character. Now - this was a new situation for her, a fellow Starfleet Captain that turned out to be the bad guy, which I could understand if there was any kind of real jubilation that they had found kindred spirits, but beyond the so-so welcome speech in the mess hall (which seemed like a formality than anything truly meaningful) there wasn't much friendly banter between the two. If Captain Ransom was an old friend from the academy - possibly an old lover (then that wouldn't give B'leanna anything to do, but waa waa) that would have made the revelation of Ransom being "bad" far more impactful on Janeway - as it stands, its kind of resting on her starfleet "pride" - which isn't exactly the most useful thing in the Delta Quadrant. And then she dumps that pride down the toilet by acting in a very un-starfleet way.


It's still a really good episode though.
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Old September 26 2013, 02:19 AM   #40
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Re: Equinox

Did the Equinox 5 survive?

It's possible that Janeway sent them on suicide mission after suicide mission until they all died?

Janeway didn't courtmartial/have a trial for anyone (Except Quinn.).

She punished still as yet innocent until found guilty peoples as if she was the Punisher from Marvel comics and movies.

Can you imagine the Maquis and the Equinox 5 in the dock trying to tell the courts on Earth that they have already worked off any sentence which would be levelled against them, only to find out that Janeway never filed jack squat to agree to anysuch agreement?

If the Equinox 5 had all routinely died during the course of the mission home, their misconduct could have been brushed under the table?
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Old September 26 2013, 02:23 AM   #41
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Re: Equinox

Well Judge Janeway in action is already questionable when a convicted murderer is told to go to his room.
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Old September 26 2013, 02:29 AM   #42
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Re: Equinox

Dac...

EDDINGTON: Do you realise what you've done?
SISKO: I've only just begun. I'm going to eliminate every Maquis colony in the DMZ.
EDDINGTON: You're talking about turning hundreds of thousands of people into homeless refugees.
SISKO: That's right. When you attacked the Malinche you proved one thing, that the Maquis have become an intolerable threat to the security of the Federation, and I am going intend to eliminate that threat.
If there were a hundred worlds which Sisko could quickly target and fuck up, that would still mean that there's thousands of Marquis on many of those planets.
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Old September 26 2013, 02:34 AM   #43
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Re: Equinox

R. Star wrote: View Post
Well Judge Janeway in action is already questionable when a convicted murderer is told to go to his room.
Meanwhile when offered a bribe to fold her convictions up into pocket square and send Quinn home, Kathryn claims that she needs a night to sleep on whether she can sell out her crew again.
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Old September 26 2013, 01:45 PM   #44
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Re: Equinox

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Did the Equinox 5 survive?

It's possible that Janeway sent them on suicide mission after suicide mission until they all died?

Janeway didn't courtmartial/have a trial for anyone (Except Quinn.).

She punished still as yet innocent until found guilty peoples as if she was the Punisher from Marvel comics and movies.

Can you imagine the Maquis and the Equinox 5 in the dock trying to tell the courts on Earth that they have already worked off any sentence which would be levelled against them, only to find out that Janeway never filed jack squat to agree to anysuch agreement?

If the Equinox 5 had all routinely died during the course of the mission home, their misconduct could have been brushed under the table?
who exactly did she punish and how? she punished Seven once and restricted her access, and she punished Tom once by demoting him. Who else did she actually punish?
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Old September 26 2013, 01:46 PM   #45
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Re: Equinox

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Well Judge Janeway in action is already questionable when a convicted murderer is told to go to his room.
Meanwhile when offered a bribe to fold her convictions up into pocket square and send Quinn home, Kathryn claims that she needs a night to sleep on whether she can sell out her crew again.
sometimes I wonder if you've ever actually watched the show

she was never going to accept his bribe, her decision was based on what she thought would be best for the Q in question
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