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Old September 25 2013, 10:58 AM   #31
Robert Comsol
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Second turbolift entrance to bridge, as later shown in TMP.
Yes, the second entrance to the bridge hinted in this screencap on the left side.
IIRC the TMP Enterprise also had this emergency exit but it was not a turbo lift.

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Old September 25 2013, 11:06 AM   #32
T'Girl
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Second turbolift entrance to bridge, as later shown in TMP.
Yes, the second entrance to the bridge hinted in this screencap on the left side.
There is a doorway there, but was it ever shown to be a turbolift?

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Old September 25 2013, 02:52 PM   #33
jpv2000
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Second turbolift entrance to bridge, as later shown in TMP.
Yes, the second entrance to the bridge hinted in this screencap on the left side.
There is a doorway there, but was it ever shown to be a turbolift?

That's what I was trying to remember. I usually assumed it was the bathroom.
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Old September 25 2013, 04:25 PM   #34
Christopher
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

The Franz Joseph and Michael McMaster blueprints incorporated the second bridge door from TAS, and portrayed it as leading to a service corridor around the bridge. And yes, the corridor did allow access to a head, as well as to a gangway down to deck 2.
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Old September 25 2013, 05:06 PM   #35
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

T'Girl wrote: View Post
There is a doorway there, but was it ever shown to be a turbolift?
On this page of screencaps from Beyond the Farthest Star, there is this shot, which gives about the best look there is inside the second door that I recall. As one of Filmation's infamous errors, the shot evidently lacks the door elements themselves, thus revealing what's back there.

Earlier on the same page of thumbnails, you can see McCoy and Scotty exiting the main turbolift.

A comparison of the backgrounds, in particular the colors and noting the presence of the silver stripe almost shoulder high, convinces me, at least, that the intent was for there to be a turbolift at the second exit, as established in the behind the scenes material that's out there.
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Old September 25 2013, 07:06 PM   #36
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

That character was indeed insane, so I think it likely there only were no female captains of starships at that time--more specifically no captains of Constitution-class ships. But by STIV we definitely saw a female captain of a Miranda-class.
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Old September 25 2013, 07:43 PM   #37
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

David.Blue wrote: View Post
That character was indeed insane, so I think it likely there only were no female captains of starships at that time--more specifically no captains of Constitution-class ships.
We don't even need to assume that much. Janet Lester's exact words were, "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women." That could be taken to mean that his duties as a captain left him no room for a woman in his life. Or maybe it was just a paranoid delusion she constructed to avoid admitting her own lack of qualifications. It makes no sense to assume that an assertion by an insane person is true on any level at all.

In the Pocket novels, there is indeed at least one female captain of a Constitution-class ship contemporaneous with TOS, Captain Atish Khatami of the Endeavour. John Byrne's IDW comics have Pike's Number One as a commodore commanding the Yorktown during or shortly after the events of TOS.
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Old September 25 2013, 07:51 PM   #38
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

Not to repeat myself, though apparently it's necessary: Kirk agreed with Janice. We know good and well that Janice didn't just want to be Kirk's lover, she wanted to be a starship captain. The episode doesn't make sense, unless it's about the glass ceiling.
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Old September 25 2013, 08:00 PM   #39
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Not to repeat myself, though apparently it's necessary: Kirk agreed with Janice. We know good and well that Janice didn't just want to be Kirk's lover, she wanted to be a starship captain. The episode doesn't make sense, unless it's about the glass ceiling.
Or he felt it pointless to argue with someone who is known to be nuts and also apparently very ill. It's safe to assume this isn't the first time the subject was discussed and probably argued. After a while you're tired of the subject and just shrug it off with, "Fine, whatever."
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Old September 25 2013, 08:13 PM   #40
J.T.B.
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

If you take Lester's comment at full face value, then yes there is some contradictory information in TOS about whether women can command a starship. So which do you give greater weight? The episode (Cage/Menagerie) where a woman was actually shown in command of a starship, or one line of dialogue by a character who was quite obviously erratic and unreliable? To me there's no question: Being female did not disqualify one from starship command.
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Old September 25 2013, 08:19 PM   #41
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

Turnabout Intruder wrote:
KIRK: "Her life could have been as rich as any woman's, if only. If only..."
This was not said in front of Janice, and cannot be interpreted as said only to placate her.

We are talking about a bad episode, the last of the series, made when everyone in production who gave a damn was heading for the exits. Defending it is... illogical.
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Old September 25 2013, 08:29 PM   #42
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

^Exactly. This isn't history, it's a bunch of stories people made up, often with different underlying assumptions. If a line doesn't fit the rest of the series, we're allowed to ignore it. We don't have to embrace the unwelcome and illogical notion that sexism would briefly return for a decade or two 300 years from now just because of one bad episode.
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Old September 25 2013, 09:17 PM   #43
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

I think it depends much on what you project onto it as well. If you're automatically assuming it to be sexist then it most likely will read that way. If you choose to interpret it as something revealing about the character saying it then you might be more inclined to define it as such.

"Your world of starship command doesn't accept women." - Your whole organization is sexist.

"Your world of starship command doesn't accept women." - Your career was all consuming and left no place for me.
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Old September 25 2013, 09:20 PM   #44
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

And "The Alternative Factor" said that a matter-antimatter reaction would destroy the entire universe, even though the rest of the franchise before and since has consistently said that matter-antimatter reactions power starships. Some lines you just have to write off as mistakes. This one isn't worth dwelling on any more than that one was.
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Old September 25 2013, 11:06 PM   #45
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Re: Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

Christopher wrote: View Post
And "The Alternative Factor" said that a matter-antimatter reaction would destroy the entire universe, even though the rest of the franchise before and since has consistently said that matter-antimatter reactions power starships. Some lines you just have to write off as mistakes. This one isn't worth dwelling on any more than that one was.
And yet in years to come this question will keep being raised.
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