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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 25 2013, 06:01 AM   #76
DonIago
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

I'd say that it's unclear whether the events of FC are:

A) a predestination paradox
B) events that all occur within the same timeline
C) events that occur across multiple timelines
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Old September 25 2013, 09:04 AM   #77
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

DonIago wrote: View Post
I'd say that it's unclear whether the events of FC are:

A) a predestination paradox
B) events that all occur within the same timeline
C) events that occur across multiple timelines
Actually it's spelled out explicitly in canon. From "Relativity" ...

DUCANE: The Pogo Paradox.

SEVEN: A causality loop in which interference to prevent an event actually triggers the same event.

DUCANE: Excellent. Can you give me an example?

SEVEN: The Borg once travelled back in time to stop Zefram Cochrane from breaking the warp barrier. They succeeded, but that in turn led the Starship Enterprise to intervene. They assisted Cochrane with the flight the Borg was trying to prevent. Causal loop complete.

DUCANE: So, in a way, the Federation owes its existence to the Borg.

SEVEN: You're welcome.

http://www.chakoteya.net/voyager/523.htm


First Contact, Enterprise, TNG, DS9 and Voyager all occur in the same reality. Anything else is just a fanon conspiracy theory.
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Old September 25 2013, 09:57 AM   #78
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
First Contact, Enterprise, TNG, DS9 and Voyager all occur in the same reality. Anything else is just a fanon conspiracy theory.
Except that my brain rejects the idea of a predestination paradox, no matter how hard I tried to force it on it.
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Old September 25 2013, 12:27 PM   #79
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
I'd say that it's unclear whether the events of FC are:

A) a predestination paradox
B) events that all occur within the same timeline
C) events that occur across multiple timelines
Actually it's spelled out explicitly in canon. From "Relativity" ...

DUCANE: The Pogo Paradox.

SEVEN: A causality loop in which interference to prevent an event actually triggers the same event.

DUCANE: Excellent. Can you give me an example?

SEVEN: The Borg once travelled back in time to stop Zefram Cochrane from breaking the warp barrier. They succeeded, but that in turn led the Starship Enterprise to intervene. They assisted Cochrane with the flight the Borg was trying to prevent. Causal loop complete.

DUCANE: So, in a way, the Federation owes its existence to the Borg.

SEVEN: You're welcome.

http://www.chakoteya.net/voyager/523.htm


First Contact, Enterprise, TNG, DS9 and Voyager all occur in the same reality. Anything else is just a fanon conspiracy theory.
Predestination paradoxes don't exist in the Orciverse. So Voyager is wrong.
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Old September 25 2013, 03:38 PM   #80
DonIago
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

More to the point, we have no idea whether the events of "Relativity" are themselves occurring in an alternate timeline because it's only discussed subjectively.

In other words, while they exist in a timeline in which the Borg interfered with "First Contact", we don't know whether it was the Borg of their timeline that interfered or whether it was Borg from a different timeline that did so. And if you believe that when you travel into the past you jump tracks, then the latter must be the case.
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Old September 25 2013, 03:53 PM   #81
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

This is why we fans can't have nice things.
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Old September 25 2013, 04:05 PM   #82
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

DonIago wrote: View Post
More to the point, we have no idea whether the events of "Relativity" are themselves occurring in an alternate timeline because it's only discussed subjectively.

In other words, while they exist in a timeline in which the Borg interfered with "First Contact", we don't know whether it was the Borg of their timeline that interfered or whether it was Borg from a different timeline that did so. And if you believe that when you travel into the past you jump tracks, then the latter must be the case.
Any of the possible results are possible. It won't always necessarily be an "alternate timeline is created when you travel back in time" in Trek, it won't always be "possible to change the past" nor will it always be "Impossible to change the past". Any of these three possibilities may happen when Trek does Time Travel, we've seen examples of all of them.
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Old September 25 2013, 04:14 PM   #83
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

I agree.

Given that Data established that individuals have quantum signatures that can be used to establish their timeline of origination, in-universe I would imagine that these quantum signatures might be tested after any incident during which individuals might have jumped tracks, to establish that they were where they were supposed to be.
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Old September 27 2013, 05:38 AM   #84
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
First Contact' changes Zephram Cochrane, who talks about a future with Robotic Zombies. One could say the universe Picard and crew returned to in the 24th Century was no longer the Prime Universe.
It sure looked like the same universe to me. There's no evidence anything was changed there either.
And the Universe that had Captain Picard eating Vanilla cake at Worf's birthday party looked awfully the same too.

Except it wasn't.

The post-'First Contact' had a Zephram Cochrane that talked about killer zombie cyborgs in the future.
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Old September 27 2013, 05:56 AM   #85
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Re: Timeline branching going forward *spoilers*

Opus wrote: View Post

The post-'First Contact' had a Zephram Cochrane that talked about killer zombie cyborgs in the future.
And how do you know the pre-FC didn't also include that? As has been said before, it could be a predestination paradox. Meaning, there was never a timeline when it did not happen. You can't prove that this was not the case.
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