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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 24 2013, 02:51 PM   #31
Christopher
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I'm not sure how the Borg nanotubules would reach a Dalek mutant inside its travel machine.
The mistaken assumption there is that Borg nanoprobes only affect organic matter. They affect technology as well. (E.g. in VGR: "Drone," some of Seven's nanoprobes contaminated the Doctor's mobile emitter, which in turn extended tubules and assimilated the computer console on which it rested.) The travel machine could be assimilated first, and then turn on the mutant inside.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:14 PM   #32
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

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The Daleks would have completely wiped the Borg out, of course.
That doesn't seem likely. The Daleks pretty much have just one strategy -- zap everything -- and Borg generally adapt to weapons fire after 2-3 shots at most.
Correction- the Daleks in the field have one strategy, to find a way to zap everything. If they can't, they adapt and find a way. Then on a strategic level they are devious fuckers capable of thinking up pretty much anything it takes to get what they want.

The first encounter between Daleks and Borg would probably go as you surmise, but the Daleks would then adapt their strategies. They're obsessed with racial purity, but when it comes to technology, you'd have an adaptivity race, and the Daleks can increase their numbers a lot more quickly, as well as being more militarily experienced.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:39 PM   #33
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

^True. I wonder if we'd get a stalemate like the Dalek-Movellan war.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:45 PM   #34
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

Christopher wrote: View Post
^True. I wonder if we'd get a stalemate like the Dalek-Movellan war.
There was no Dalek-Movellan War. That was one of the Daleks' many schemes.

However, yes, over the short-term, there would probably be a stalemale of sorts between the Daleks and the Borg, until the Daleks finally tired of the Borg pest and brought the full weight of their Empire to bear on the Delta Quadrant in Mutter's Spiral.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:59 PM   #35
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

On a grand strategic level, fleet vs fleet, the Daleks would eventually get pissed off and blow up the galaxy, if that's what it took. I mean, remember in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End, they come up with a way to destroy the whole reality itself- the Borg have nothing on that.
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Old September 24 2013, 04:22 PM   #36
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

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On a grand strategic level, fleet vs fleet, the Daleks would eventually get pissed off and blow up the galaxy, if that's what it took. I mean, remember in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End, they come up with a way to destroy the whole reality itself- the Borg have nothing on that.
This is the problem of comparing forces from fictional universes with wildly different standards of physical plausibility. "Of course Voldemort could defeat the SS -- his Death Eaters could just cast Avada Kedavra on them all! The Nazis have nothing on that!"

Plus you can arbitrarily pick the most powerful example of whichever side you want to win. The Daleks only tried to destroy reality once -- it stands to reason that at any other point in history, they lacked that capability, or weren't insane enough to use it. What if the Borg went up against the Daleks at a less advanced point in the latter's history?

That's why this kind of comparison is so silly. You can fudge the rules and parameters however you want. Of course the real answer to "Who would win in a fight" is "Whoever the writer wants to win." Indeed, arguing that the side with technological superiority is bound to win is contrary to the rules of fiction. Generally the side that has the overwhelming advantage is the one that's doomed to defeat, because it's more exciting when the odds are stacked against the heroes. The Daleks have a galaxy-destroying army and the Doctor has a screwdriver. The Borg have conquered a quarter or more of the galaxy and make Federation technology look primitive in comparison to theirs. Yet it's still the underdogs who win, because they have the rules of drama on their side.
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Old September 24 2013, 07:43 PM   #37
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

Pre timewar Daleks would get assimilated
Post timewar Daleks wouldn't have much difficulty with the borg.

I don't much see a problem with Whoverse humans beating the cybermen who in turn beat the borg. Whoverse humans are much more militarily inclined - all those "Great and Bountiful Human Empires". Q would have a field day taking them to trial!
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Old September 24 2013, 10:17 PM   #38
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

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^When they first announced the crossover I was really hoping that they would use the Daleks. I was kind of disappointed when they said it was the Cybermen. I like the Cybermen, and I can see why they would pair them up with the Borg, but I still would have been more interested it if was the Daleks.
IDW didn't license the rights to the Daleks. Plus, the Daleks add another chair to the approvals process table -- the Nation estate. Even if IDW had the rights to the Daleks, using the Daleks would have complicated the approvals process on this, which already went through two different studios.
I didn't realize the rights to the Daleks were seperate from the rest of Dr. Who. I swore I'd seen the Daleks in the ads for some of the IDW comics.
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Old September 24 2013, 10:44 PM   #39
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

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I didn't realize the rights to the Daleks were seperate from the rest of Dr. Who.
As a rule, British TV writers retain more ownership of their creations than American ones do. Pretty much any character or species created by Doctor Who by a freelancer rather than the show's own staff is the property of its creator. That's why Bob Baker was able to license the K-9 character to the makers of the unofficial Australian spinoff, which was able to use K-9 (and hire John Leeson to reprise his voice) but had to change his appearance (after a brief glimpse of the original) and could only make implicit allusions to anything else from Doctor Who.

The catch is that Terry Nation and his estate have historically been more reluctant to license the Daleks than other DW writers have been. There were even a couple of times when they denied Doctor Who itself the right to the Daleks, which is why there were a couple of periods in the original series where years went by without a Dalek story. The Virgin New/Missing Adventures novels didn't have the rights to the Daleks either, at least not while I was reading them, so they were able to talk about the Daleks but not actually feature them.
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Old September 24 2013, 11:03 PM   #40
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

JD wrote: View Post
I didn't realize the rights to the Daleks were separate from the rest of Dr. Who. I swore I'd seen the Daleks in the ads for some of the IDW comics.
You may have, though I can't think of any appearances of Daleks in IDW ads off-hand.

The most recent series of Doctor Who Classics went on an unexpected hiatus of several months length right as it was about to print "Nemesis of the Daleks." It eventually came out. I wonder if the Daleks were the reason. IDW, for instance, never reprinted the Abslom Daak stories.
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Old September 25 2013, 12:12 AM   #41
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

It's worth pointing out, though, that the BBC does own the rights to the appearance of the Daleks, as that was created by Ray Cusick, who was a BBC employee. The concept of a Dalek, on the other hand, is Terry Nation's.
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Old September 25 2013, 01:11 AM   #42
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
It's worth pointing out, though, that the BBC does own the rights to the appearance of the Daleks, as that was created by Ray Cusick, who was a BBC employee. The concept of a Dalek, on the other hand, is Terry Nation's.
That's true. It's been pointed out that the BBC could use the Dalek casings for, say, Teletubbies-like creatures that sings and dances and talks in high-pitched babble, and there's nothing Nation's estate could do.

It's the same thing with K-9. The BBC owns the design, but Martin and Baker own the character. (Or did one of the two sell their share to the other? I can never remember.) And when RTD's series was in development, I seem to recall that one of the TARDIS console room concept designs incorporated the K-9 design as a feature.
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Old September 25 2013, 03:42 AM   #43
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

No, you're right about K-9. Baker was able to use the original K-9 design in the K-9 pilot because they traded with the BBC, allowing the BBC to use the character in Series 3 of Sarah Jane.
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Old November 19 2013, 12:12 AM   #44
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

I know this was released as two seperate TPB's, but I've just seen on Amazon this is now out as a complete HC

And I just hard to say, wow, that cover artwork is awful!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Trek-Ge...irst+150+years
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Old November 19 2013, 01:24 AM   #45
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Re: The Borg in Assimilation2

Ethros wrote: View Post
I know this was released as two seperate TPB's, but I've just seen on Amazon this is now out as a complete HC

And I just hard to say, wow, that cover artwork is awful!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Trek-Ge...irst+150+years
That's not the cover.

It's a wraparound piece by J.K. Woodward that sort of riffs on George Perez's 1980's unused JLA/Avengers cover -- on the right (in this case, front) there are the heroes and they're matching up against the Borg and Cybermen on the left (in this case, back).
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