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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 24 2013, 10:34 AM   #31
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Another article that cites Las Vegas convention poll (100 fans from 15,000+ convention goers, but of course that part is never mentioned) as if it's something meaningful, and thus fails completely. I didn't even read further. They might as well cite Bernd's raving about the Enterprise design and size on EAS - after all, EW did quote him about the NX-01 being "too advanced" back in 2001.
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Old September 24 2013, 10:53 AM   #32
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Another article that cites Las Vegas convention poll (100 fans from 15,000+ convention goers, but of course that part is never mentioned) as if it's something meaningful, and thus fails completely. I didn't even read further.
Well you probably should have as the article goes onto state:

it takes a serious amount of angry amnesia to declare Into Darkness the worst Star Trek movie ever. Worse than The Final Frontier, a mesmerizingly narcissistic vanity project about William Shatner going mountain-climbing and killing a god using the power of his oratory? Worse than Insurrection, a movie-length away mission to a grade-Z planet? I understand people who feel like Into Darkness wastes decades of franchise mythology one empty spectacle…but I’m hard-pressed to say that it’s a bigger waste than the climax of Star Trek: Generations, which unites the two most iconic characters in Star Trek history so they can punch Malcolm McDowell.
I thought it was a reasonably balanced article but y'know, whatever.
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Old September 24 2013, 10:58 AM   #33
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post
The fan-creator divide seems more contentious than ever.
The creators started that divide with all their bashing against old Trek. "Not you father's Trek", those "Nacelles Monthly subscriber" remarks, the constant justifications for the fast paced style with "old Trek was lame and boring", and all that shit.

Entertainment Weekly wrote:
Orci shut down his Twitter account after the scuffle, possibly because he needed to buckle down and focus on disappointing people with screenplays for Mummy reboots and Spider-Man sequels.
Gotta love that. And even more original work coming from Orci. He might get millions for it, but seriously, the guy is a hack. When he does write something original that is not a reboot or sequel borrowing from other films and franchises, wake me up.
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Old September 24 2013, 01:28 PM   #34
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Gotta love that. And even more original work coming from Orci. He might get millions for it, but seriously, the guy is a hack. When he does write something original that is not a reboot or sequel borrowing from other films and franchises, wake me up.
More than anything, it sounds like you're jealous of his success.
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Old September 24 2013, 01:57 PM   #35
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post
The fan-creator divide seems more contentious than ever.
The creators started that divide with all their bashing against old Trek. "Not you father's Trek", those "Nacelles Monthly subscriber" remarks, the constant justifications for the fast paced style with "old Trek was lame and boring", and all that shit.

Entertainment Weekly wrote:
Orci shut down his Twitter account after the scuffle, possibly because he needed to buckle down and focus on disappointing people with screenplays for Mummy reboots and Spider-Man sequels.
Gotta love that. And even more original work coming from Orci. He might get millions for it, but seriously, the guy is a hack. When he does write something original that is not a reboot or sequel borrowing from other films and franchises, wake me up.
If he's a hack, and complaints about Into Darkness are copy-paste jobs of 1982 Wrath of Khan complaints from Interstat, does that make Harve Bennett a hack as well?
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Old September 24 2013, 02:07 PM   #36
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
If he's a hack, and complaints about Into Darkness are copy-paste jobs of 1982 Wrath of Khan complaints from Interstat, does that make Harve Bennett a hack as well?
A. Why would it? and B. What if it did?
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Old September 24 2013, 02:14 PM   #37
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Shazam! wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
If he's a hack, and complaints about Into Darkness are copy-paste jobs of 1982 Wrath of Khan complaints from Interstat, does that make Harve Bennett a hack as well?
A. Why would it? and B. What if it did?
A. Because the complaints against both movies are so similar, it stands to reason the writers have similar ability levels.

B. Just curious. If it does, I guess I just like hack writing.
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Old September 24 2013, 02:16 PM   #38
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

If STID borrowed heavily from TWOK, then TWOK borrowed heavily from Moby Dick.

The two characters TWOK and STID have in common: Carol Marcus and Khan.

The major villain in STID and not in TWOK: Admiral Marcus.

The MacGuffin in TWOK: Genesis. The MacGuffin in STID: 72 photon torpedoes with Khan's people hidden in them.

It boggles my mind after all these months that some still call STID a TWOK rehash. How is it? Really. Let's see someone post an itemized list of the similarities. Scene by scene. Plot point by plot point. Theme by theme. It should be easy. Right?
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Old September 24 2013, 02:19 PM   #39
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post
The fan-creator divide seems more contentious than ever.
The creators started that divide with all their bashing against old Trek. "Not you father's Trek", those "Nacelles Monthly subscriber" remarks, the constant justifications for the fast paced style with "old Trek was lame and boring", and all that shit.

Entertainment Weekly wrote:
Orci shut down his Twitter account after the scuffle, possibly because he needed to buckle down and focus on disappointing people with screenplays for Mummy reboots and Spider-Man sequels.
Gotta love that. And even more original work coming from Orci. He might get millions for it, but seriously, the guy is a hack. When he does write something original that is not a reboot or sequel borrowing from other films and franchises, wake me up.
If he's a hack, and complaints about Into Darkness are copy-paste jobs of 1982 Wrath of Khan complaints from Interstat, does that make Harve Bennett a hack as well?
Let's see: hack Bennett revived Khan but also helped develop the Starfleet Academy angle. I'd say hack Bennett<hack Orci.
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Old September 24 2013, 02:22 PM   #40
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post

The creators started that divide with all their bashing against old Trek. "Not you father's Trek", those "Nacelles Monthly subscriber" remarks, the constant justifications for the fast paced style with "old Trek was lame and boring", and all that shit.


Gotta love that. And even more original work coming from Orci. He might get millions for it, but seriously, the guy is a hack. When he does write something original that is not a reboot or sequel borrowing from other films and franchises, wake me up.
If he's a hack, and complaints about Into Darkness are copy-paste jobs of 1982 Wrath of Khan complaints from Interstat, does that make Harve Bennett a hack as well?
Let's see: hack Bennett revived Khan but also helped develop the Starfleet Academy angle. I'd say hack Bennett<hack Orci.
You mean that prequel film that was never made? Sounds to me like they even had similar ideas about what to do with Trek...
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Old September 24 2013, 02:24 PM   #41
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
If he's a hack, and complaints about Into Darkness are copy-paste jobs of 1982 Wrath of Khan complaints from Interstat, does that make Harve Bennett a hack as well?
A. Why would it? and B. What if it did?
A. Because the complaints against both movies are so similar, it stands to reason the writers have similar ability levels.
But Harve Bennett didn't write Star Trek II : /
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Old September 24 2013, 02:42 PM   #42
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

As executive producer he had a great deal of input. I guess I should have said, are Jack B. Sowards and Nick Meyer hacks? Is J.J. Abrams? Etc.
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Old September 24 2013, 04:19 PM   #43
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Anji wrote: View Post
Ah, hem. The "butthurt" chiming in here.

I think it's pretty safe to say that we're not pissed just disappointed.

Was there really a reason to pull those characters from TWOK?

Abrams didn't seem like he wanted to continue to grow the franchise, but merely take advantage of its successful moments and capitalize on it for his own benefit.

Disappointing.

Glad he went over to Star Wars.
Don't think it's a "JJ" thing at all.

The writers provide the tree, JJ just decorates it.
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Old September 24 2013, 04:23 PM   #44
Yanks
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

Franklin wrote: View Post
If STID borrowed heavily from TWOK, then TWOK borrowed heavily from Moby Dick.

The two characters TWOK and STID have in common: Carol Marcus and Khan.

The major villain in STID and not in TWOK: Admiral Marcus.

The MacGuffin in TWOK: Genesis. The MacGuffin in STID: 72 photon torpedoes with Khan's people hidden in them.

It boggles my mind after all these months that some still call STID a TWOK rehash. How is it? Really. Let's see someone post an itemized list of the similarities. Scene by scene. Plot point by plot point. Theme by theme. It should be easy. Right?

It's not. Not a rehash of Space Seed either.

My opinion is, if they'd ended it differently (no TWoK death scene rip-off) this movie would be just as universally praised as ST09.
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Old September 24 2013, 04:46 PM   #45
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Re: State of Trek according to Entertainment Weekly

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The creators started that divide with all their bashing against old Trek. "Not you father's Trek", those "Nacelles Monthly subscriber" remarks, the constant justifications for the fast paced style with "old Trek was lame and boring", and all that shit.
Sometimes I think some people here live in an alternate reality? Or maybe it's just that I do.

When Bad Robot said "This is not your father's 'Star Trek'", they weren't dissing the old one. They were telling the new demographic that the new films would have something for them, as well as their Dads.

Yes, Orci & Kurtzman are self-proclaimed TNG fans, but they spent months reading TOS novels - and even made a list of the ones they loved ("Spock's World", "Final Frontier", "Best Destiny", "Ex Machina", etc), several of which became influential in their writing of the 2009 film.

And I don't recall any of the Bad Robot gang describing "old Trek" as "lame and boring". JJ Abrams explained that he found ST:TMP disappointingly boring, because he was an enthusiastic little kid at the Smithsonian premiere and he was expecting a SF film just like the "Star Wars" film he'd seen two years earlier.

I was a ST newbie in 1980 and had just started substitute teaching in the years between TMP and ST II - and all the kids I tried to chat Star Trek with thought that TMP was boring. Most adult fans I met agreed with them.

So what other "bashing" did I miss, or misunderstand?
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