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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old September 14 2013, 03:44 PM   #301
R. Star
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Don't worry about not having seen Amok Time... I'm pretty sure the folks who wrote this didn't either. I guess I'm really one of the few people who has a problem with the whole Torres/Vorik fight thing. Tuvok says she has the right to be her own "defender" and if she loses Vorik gets her... so essentially she's fighting to keep Vorik from raping her.

Paris really is the only saving element of the episode, I did like how he tried to be a gentleman during all this... even when Tuvok says he must "help her." Right... "You must screw this incredibly horny woman, who has no control of her self, Mr Paris. It is the only logical thing."

I get how Vulcans would be standoffish about turning into hormone driven sex maniacs every six years... but by this time, you think they'd all have gotten together to discuss this. There was at least one female Vulcan on Voyager or at least there was at some point.



Wouldn't they have planned this out in advance? Wouldn't that be... oh... logical?
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Old September 14 2013, 05:58 PM   #302
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

lol genius. Is that a background character or someone actually important? It could always be argued that they're in a relationship already, and don't forget Vorik chose Torres because she was what he considered a good mate, not just a handy female nearby.

As for them discussing it. Vorik and Tuvok go out of their way to not discuss it with the EMH, Tom's clearly never heard of it until Tuvok has to explain it. There's also the scene with Tuvok in Vorik's quarters, neither of them look particularly comfortable talking about it. I get the impression for Vulcaons it's become "Come home, get your end away, and leave. Let's never speak of this again!"
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Old September 22 2013, 12:38 PM   #303
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Unity

I really liked it.sort of the flip side of both Decent and the concept of Seven. Ex-Borg that create their own Collective. Bit dark with the fact they forced the other survivors into it. Janeway and Chakotay' s conversation at the end summed it up perfectly.I'd love the cooperative to be revisited, though I realise Voyager' s concept won't ever do that.
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Old September 23 2013, 02:31 PM   #304
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

R. Star wrote: View Post
Don't worry about not having seen Amok Time... I'm pretty sure the folks who wrote this didn't either. I guess I'm really one of the few people who has a problem with the whole Torres/Vorik fight thing. Tuvok says she has the right to be her own "defender" and if she loses Vorik gets her... so essentially she's fighting to keep Vorik from raping her.

Paris really is the only saving element of the episode, I did like how he tried to be a gentleman during all this... even when Tuvok says he must "help her." Right... "You must screw this incredibly horny woman, who has no control of her self, Mr Paris. It is the only logical thing."

I get how Vulcans would be standoffish about turning into hormone driven sex maniacs every six years... but by this time, you think they'd all have gotten together to discuss this. There was at least one female Vulcan on Voyager or at least there was at some point.



Wouldn't they have planned this out in advance? Wouldn't that be... oh... logical?
it's every seven years
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Old September 23 2013, 03:35 PM   #305
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

R. Star wrote: View Post
Don't worry about not having seen Amok Time... I'm pretty sure the folks who wrote this didn't either. I guess I'm really one of the few people who has a problem with the whole Torres/Vorik fight thing. Tuvok says she has the right to be her own "defender" and if she loses Vorik gets her... so essentially she's fighting to keep Vorik from raping her.

Paris really is the only saving element of the episode, I did like how he tried to be a gentleman during all this... even when Tuvok says he must "help her." Right... "You must screw this incredibly horny woman, who has no control of her self, Mr Paris. It is the only logical thing."

I get how Vulcans would be standoffish about turning into hormone driven sex maniacs every six years... but by this time, you think they'd all have gotten together to discuss this. There was at least one female Vulcan on Voyager or at least there was at some point.



Wouldn't they have planned this out in advance? Wouldn't that be... oh... logical?
In general I like this episode a lot, I'm a big paris/torres fan

Even if B'Elanna had lost the fight I doubt it would have ended in them having sex if she was against it.

I agree with you about Tom, given his reputation you would think he would have jumped at the oportunity the very minute she brought it up in the cave. But I think it shows a lot about him that he resisted her. When it comes to Tom I think on the outside he's that carefree womanizer who makes jokes about everything, but on the inside I think he's quite sensitive and still kind of that little boy seeking his father's approval

as for the other vulcan, vorik implied that he considered all the available women, which I'm assuming includes any vulcans, and he chose B'Elanna. Vorik and Tuvok both made it quite clear that it's not something they talk about, even talking about it to each other was increidbly difficult to them, so I would think that Vorik apporaching a vulcan female would have been out of line for him
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Old September 23 2013, 03:36 PM   #306
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
lol genius. Is that a background character or someone actually important? It could always be argued that they're in a relationship already, and don't forget Vorik chose Torres because she was what he considered a good mate, not just a handy female nearby.

As for them discussing it. Vorik and Tuvok go out of their way to not discuss it with the EMH, Tom's clearly never heard of it until Tuvok has to explain it. There's also the scene with Tuvok in Vorik's quarters, neither of them look particularly comfortable talking about it. I get the impression for Vulcaons it's become "Come home, get your end away, and leave. Let's never speak of this again!"
I think that's exactly what it is. Tuvok and Vorik can barely even speak to each other about it
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Old September 24 2013, 10:31 AM   #307
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

AGH just seen I wrote Decent instead of Descent, that'll teach me for posting on Kindle.

Anyway, The Darkling

WOW Kes, been awhile since we've seen her. Didn't even realise till she turned up, and she was certainly trading up from Neelix, and has developed a better dress sense. I kinda like how she's written as a bit of a teenager with her dealings with the bloke too.

It's a shame it comes at the exact time that the Doctor drives himself insane. Basically this episode is Picardo once again proving he is the best actor in the show. Holy Crap! He's amazing here. I think the producers cottoned onto his range considering it's not been that long since we had the losing his mind/EMH diagnostic program.
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Old September 24 2013, 12:34 PM   #308
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
AGH just seen I wrote Decent instead of Descent, that'll teach me for posting on Kindle.

Anyway, The Darkling

WOW Kes, been awhile since we've seen her. Didn't even realise till she turned up, and she was certainly trading up from Neelix, and has developed a better dress sense. I kinda like how she's written as a bit of a teenager with her dealings with the bloke too.

It's a shame it comes at the exact time that the Doctor drives himself insane. Basically this episode is Picardo once again proving he is the best actor in the show. Holy Crap! He's amazing here. I think the producers cottoned onto his range considering it's not been that long since we had the losing his mind/EMH diagnostic program.
a lot of people don't like this episode. Except for the Kes parts I thought it was pretty good, like you said Picardo is amazing in it. The Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde thing was great
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Old September 24 2013, 12:36 PM   #309
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

R. Star wrote: View Post
There was at least one female Vulcan on Voyager or at least there was at some point.



Wouldn't they have planned this out in advance? Wouldn't that be... oh... logical?
I've said it before: Vulcan weeaboo. So, human.
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Old September 24 2013, 02:00 PM   #310
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

KaraBear wrote: View Post
a lot of people don't like this episode. Except for the Kes parts I thought it was pretty good, like you said Picardo is amazing in it. The Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde thing was great
On the episode alone I can see why. It doesn't do a whole lot. But Picardo raises it a few levels.
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Old October 19 2013, 10:57 PM   #311
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Been a while, but I finally got a chance to sit down and watch some Voyager. Three in fact.

Rise
Generally just a bad episode. Pretty bad writing as a whole, and the Neelix/Tuvok thing has been done so many times already, and far better then here.

Favourite Son
Now I know that the producers had intended to rid themselves of Harry Kim in Season 4, I can't help but wonder if this was some sort of going away present for Garrett Wang. It doesn't do a whole lot else other then him getting touched up and kiss a fair number of attractive women.

Before and After
Makes this mini marathon worth it. I'll admit, seeing Kes married to Tom initially had me feeling a bit weird about the whole thing, like it was a season 2 episode that got forgotten. Then the conversation about the Year of Hell happened and the episode got a hell of a lot more interesting.

Not that it wasn't interesting already. The potential future was pretty cool. Chakotay as captain, Paris makes Lt. Commander. Doctor can walk about without a portable emitter and decided he should hair. I love episodes that give us these potential glimpses. However, Harry is creepy as hell. Marrying Tom's kid is seriously weird. Harry's his best friend, he'd very likely be like a uncle to that girl, then she hits puberty super fast and Kim's right in there. Creepy uncle indeed.

It also makes me realise just how much Year of Hell is a right temporal cluster F--k. We see here how it should have played out. Kes' trip back changes things so Janeway survives the first encounter and manages to changes things for a third timeline. That's some pretty crazy changes. I expect the DTI might want to have a look at that at some point.
(Year of Hell is one of the few episodes I've decently remembered from the first airing, and I'm really looking forward to watching it to get the details cleared up. So try to be easy on the YoH spoilers please )
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Old November 3 2013, 07:30 PM   #312
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Real Life

When this started with the saccharin sweet family of the EMH's I really wasn't looking forward to the next 45 minutes. I thought it was going to be cringe-worthy display with the crew trying to get him to understand that it wasn't what a real family was. While this is essentially what happened. Having B'elanna do it the way she did worked fantastically, and became quite a touching episode. I love the Doctor's attempt to just outright ignore it, only for him to go back in after Tom's rather well delivered speech. That final look of Picardo's was great. Totally devastated, yet at the same time trying to get his head around the whole thing.

Oh yes Tom, the B story. Nice little plot. Nice Trek without really doing much. Shame it was so far removed from the Doctor's story, which seems to be the case, just like with The Swarm. As for him and B'elanna. Those two really need to admit something's going on soon.
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Old November 3 2013, 08:05 PM   #313
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Re: Real life: A very affecting story... and a cute look into B'Elanna's preferred choice of reading materials.

Women Warriors at the River of Blood

Much better than Scotty's "technical manuals".

As for B&A...

Kes' trip back changes things so Janeway survives the first encounter and manages to changes things for a third timeline.
Kes changes things within the episode, but anything that changes "after" the episode/before Janeway gets TS's is all the timeship's doing.

I love B&A, and wish Voyager was brave enough to age Kes in the series the way they aged her in this one episode. Why have someone who lives a lifetime in 9 years and NOT let them live that lifetime?
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Old November 3 2013, 08:55 PM   #314
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Naturally the Doctor is so moved by all this... that it's never mentioned or brought up again.
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Old November 4 2013, 11:13 AM   #315
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Re: Real life: A very affecting story... and a cute look into B'Elanna's preferred choice of reading materials.

Women Warriors at the River of Blood
I love that Paris nicks it too.


JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
As for B&A...

Kes' trip back changes things so Janeway survives the first encounter and manages to changes things for a third timeline.
Kes changes things within the episode, but anything that changes "after" the episode/before Janeway gets TS's is all the timeship's doing.
So four timelines? Jesus.

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
I love B&A, and wish Voyager was brave enough to age Kes in the series the way they aged her in this one episode. Why have someone who lives a lifetime in 9 years and NOT let them live that lifetime?
Yeah that always sort of bugged me that it would never play out when she leaves. I think it was a good move doing this episode as a consolation at least. However I question the hair change. Not that I have a problem with the hair change, just doing it in a time travel story. We hit modern day and it took me a while to realise. The long hair made me think we were still in the future. Doing it next episode would have been clever. She sees herself with it, likes it, and grows it out in the past. Kes' hair becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
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