RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,094
Posts: 5,432,429
Members: 24,931
Currently online: 510
Newest member: emogs

TrekToday headlines

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 23 2013, 08:27 PM   #511
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

He means a subtitle. And to be fair, they already tried calling one "Star Trek The Movie".

Sorry, "The Motion Picture". It was better leaving it at just Star Trek this time around.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23 2013, 09:34 PM   #512
SolitaryJustice
Lieutenant
 
SolitaryJustice's Avatar
 
Location: Bozeman, MT
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

One more movie that segways into a show to restore the timeline. So yeah, I want it back, but eventually...
__________________
"In the course of my life, I have more than once been too ignorant to know that something was impossible before I did it anyway." -Maximus from the Codex Alera
SolitaryJustice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 12:42 AM   #513
Mr. Comic Book
Ensign
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
One more movie that segways into a show to restore the timeline. So yeah, I want it back, but eventually...
Some Superman fans want Tom Welling to headline the movies (never mind his long-standing disinterest in ever wearing the suit) and want the John Byrne-instigated comics continuity restored.

Some Batman fans want the Bale/Nolan franchise to continue and want anything other than the Frank Miller-influenced version wiped from existence.

Some Spider-Man fans want his marriage reinstated as if nothing ever happened, never mind that it would require glossing over the fact that he betrayed everything he ever stood for by guilting MJ into taking Mephisto's deal and violated Aunt May's dying wishes by doing so.

Some Star Wars fans want the prequels and cartoons scrubbed from existence, and would be perfectly happy to see Return of the Jedi get tossed, too.

A ton of Fifty Shades of Grey fans want Charlie Hunnam and Dakota Johnson fired from the movie and want Matt Bomer and Alexis Bledel -- two actors who weren't interested in the project, probably have never worked together, and never bothered to audition -- forced to replace them.

Some Lord of the Rings fans want either a word-for-word replication of the novels or a drastic alteration of the story a la John Boorman's failed 1970s pitch out of the belief that Peter Jackson's minor cuts and edits to the story are an insult to the material.

What am I getting at? You can't always get what you want, especially when it's not realistic or feasible. A Trek movie or TV show designed to divert back to the old timeline would be completely improbable and, to be honest, destructive to the franchise. You'd be heading right back to Trek being an insular niche franchise and sacrificing any chance of it having mass appeal...the very opposite of what it started out as. What would be the point? What purpose would there be to backtrack and make Trek nerd ghetto fare again?

Again, as I said before, every incarnation of a franchise has an expiration date. The "prime timeline" went on well past its sell-by date and ended on a sour note. At what point do we accept it's over? At what point do we accept it's time for Trek to adopt, adapt, and modernize? I mean, there are incarnations of Superman and Batman that I like better than others, but I don't expect them to go on forever. They have their endpoints and I accept that. The same applies to Trek. The old timeline's done, and it ended in tatters. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge it's time to start over fresh, and you HAVE to appeal to newcomers and get new blood involved. Stubbornly staying the course won't appeal to anyone but a shrinking core of die-hards, and Trek can't survive on that.

It's one thing to miss the old stuff and be nostalgic for it. But to argue that the franchise should backpedal and go back to the old way of doing things...sorry, but that would make no sense.
Mr. Comic Book is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 12:57 AM   #514
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
One more movie that segways into a show to restore the timeline. So yeah, I want it back, but eventually...
But what is the practical advantage of restoring the old timeline at that point? And, no, "restoring the proper timeline" is not a worthwhile end in itself . . .

Unless it makes the stories better or attracts a larger audience, what's the point? Just to scratch a continuity itch?
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 01:02 AM   #515
Yanks
Fleet Captain
 
Yanks's Avatar
 
Location: NX01 Bridge
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Something that would have been neat would have been if the Enterprise would have been sucked int the black hole at the end of ST09, then the movie ended.
__________________
We have to learn again that science without contact with experiments is an enterprise which is likely to go completely astray into imaginary conjecture.”
- Evolution of the Solar System, NASA 1976, H. Alfvén & G, Arrhenius, p. 257.
Yanks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 03:48 AM   #516
SolitaryJustice
Lieutenant
 
SolitaryJustice's Avatar
 
Location: Bozeman, MT
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
One more movie that segways into a show to restore the timeline. So yeah, I want it back, but eventually...
But what is the practical advantage of restoring the old timeline at that point? And, no, "restoring the proper timeline" is not a worthwhile end in itself . . .

Unless it makes the stories better or attracts a larger audience, what's the point? Just to scratch a continuity itch?
Why couldn't you do a story where you had the future in the Abrams-Verse that turned out to be like the bad place from the "Parallels" episode of TNG, where the Borg were everywhere and so is the Dominion... go back in time, stop Nero, and that's the conclusion of a series or mini-series. If that works out, then fast-forward to this point in the future, 15-20 years after the Dominion Wars End, 10-15 years after future Janeway cripples the Borg, set up a small ship with a small crew, some new technology, and set them off on a trip with the use of a Borg transwarp network, set up alliances with familiar people in the aftermath of the Dominion War, help rebuild Romulan society or, better, have them part of the Federation, tearing THAT wall down, doing good works, exploring OUTSIDE of our own galaxy, learning new ways to transport the crew, instead of warp drive, maybe an artificial wormhole generator or something... I think it's enough of a departure from what we KNOW as Star Trek yet gives the stories a chance to be what science fiction is supposed to be. Maybe put an arc in there to keep people interested. Changing the way things are done (transporters, warp drive, phasers, torpedoes, shields) with the dominion war research and Borg tech, creating new, different, bizarre and intriguing sets and props to go with it.
__________________
"In the course of my life, I have more than once been too ignorant to know that something was impossible before I did it anyway." -Maximus from the Codex Alera
SolitaryJustice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 04:06 AM   #517
bigboojeg
Vice Admiral
 
bigboojeg's Avatar
 
Location: bbjeg
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

I miss that old "Continuing mission" feeling, from TOS to Voyager, then Enterprise messed it up, and now it's "continuing mission until it's rebooted for the next generation".
bigboojeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 04:24 AM   #518
SolitaryJustice
Lieutenant
 
SolitaryJustice's Avatar
 
Location: Bozeman, MT
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

I don't think it has to be a reboot for every generation. TNG was a great successor to TOS in many ways. Lots of TOS fans hated it, but TNG fans, some of who had never seen or been interested in TOS, were now involved in this thing that grew. Now, they're both lumped into Trekkies because they all... understand... the overall story. A new series set far in the future, after TNG and DS9, can give you that "reboot" without having an actual "reboot". The technology can be cool by TODAY'S standards, not just slightly more advanced versions of what was cool by 1966'S standards (i.e. phasers, photon torpedoes, warp speed, transporter beams). Make a ship with an artifical wormhole generator, make cool types of weapons, like energy damnpening spears, go back to BSG/WWII-style turrets and fighter planes, instead of transporters, have Iconian-style gateways on every ship, and blatantly play with time travel, backwards and forwards, have fun.
__________________
"In the course of my life, I have more than once been too ignorant to know that something was impossible before I did it anyway." -Maximus from the Codex Alera
SolitaryJustice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 04:29 AM   #519
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
One more movie that segways into a show to restore the timeline. So yeah, I want it back, but eventually...
But what is the practical advantage of restoring the old timeline at that point? And, no, "restoring the proper timeline" is not a worthwhile end in itself . . .

Unless it makes the stories better or attracts a larger audience, what's the point? Just to scratch a continuity itch?
Why couldn't you do a story where you had the future in the Abrams-Verse that turned out to be like the bad place from the "Parallels" episode of TNG, where the Borg were everywhere and so is the Dominion... go back in time, stop Nero, and that's the conclusion of a series or mini-series. If that works out, then fast-forward to this point in the future, 15-20 years after the Dominion Wars End, 10-15 years after future Janeway cripples the Borg, set up a small ship with a small crew, some new technology, and set them off on a trip with the use of a Borg transwarp network, set up alliances with familiar people in the aftermath of the Dominion War, help rebuild Romulan society or, better, have them part of the Federation, tearing THAT wall down, doing good works, exploring OUTSIDE of our own galaxy, learning new ways to transport the crew, instead of warp drive, maybe an artificial wormhole generator or something... I think it's enough of a departure from what we KNOW as Star Trek yet gives the stories a chance to be what science fiction is supposed to be. Maybe put an arc in there to keep people interested. Changing the way things are done (transporters, warp drive, phasers, torpedoes, shields) with the dominion war research and Borg tech, creating new, different, bizarre and intriguing sets and props to go with it.
Sure, you could do that, but, again, why? What's the point of rebooting the franchise to attract a new generation of viewers if you're just going to go back to "the aftermath of the Dominion War" and all that old baggage? That defeats the whole point of rebooting and starting over from scratch . . ..

You keep assuming that the vast TV-going public wants the old timeline back, and that there's some pressing need to somehow get back to old timeline eventually, but that's not necessarily the case. Restoring the old timeline is not going to help the ratings of any new Trek show one bit . . . .
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 04:35 AM   #520
SolitaryJustice
Lieutenant
 
SolitaryJustice's Avatar
 
Location: Bozeman, MT
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

I'm not suggesting someone should do an aftermath story. That'd be boring. That'd be too blatant a tie in. What I'm saying is that if you set it far enough AHEAD of that time, like TNG did with TOS, you could do an original series, set on a ship (not an Enterprise), say with the technological boost, they're like today's astronauts, testing out these things and seeing if they really CAN go to ANOTHER GALAXY or backwards and forwards in time safely and responsibly, whether or not they SHOULD, that classic debate, but in a totally new and fresh context.
__________________
"In the course of my life, I have more than once been too ignorant to know that something was impossible before I did it anyway." -Maximus from the Codex Alera
SolitaryJustice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 04:45 AM   #521
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
I'm not suggesting someone should do an aftermath story. That'd be boring. That'd be too blatant a tie in. What I'm saying is that if you set it far enough AHEAD of that time, like TNG did with TOS, you could do an original series, set on a ship (not an Enterprise), say with the technological boost, they're like today's astronauts, testing out these things and seeing if they really CAN go to ANOTHER GALAXY or backwards and forwards in time safely and responsibly, whether or not they SHOULD, that classic debate, but in a totally new and fresh context.
True, so why bother bringing back the old continuity after you've gone to so much trouble to get rid of it? Just for the sake of doing so? What does that accomplish? To be blunt, how does that help attract new viewers?

Again, we can't just assume that "restoring the prime timeline" is a goal worth pursuing. Why go to great lengths to accomplish something that doesn't need to be done?

Or, more simply, what possible incentive is there for bringing back the old timeline anyway?
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 05:08 AM   #522
SolitaryJustice
Lieutenant
 
SolitaryJustice's Avatar
 
Location: Bozeman, MT
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

I think getting to a place that's new from a place that's familiar is part of the fun. ST09 was this, a transition to a new place and time. I think that an awesome mid-story could be a dark and gritty serial and a series would be in a future distant to us, maybe a generation who looks at Picard and Janeway like they saw Kirk and Sulu, badass. Trek never RELIED on the predecessors as much as it just barely mentioned them, albiet it did consistently have a formulaic feel.
__________________
"In the course of my life, I have more than once been too ignorant to know that something was impossible before I did it anyway." -Maximus from the Codex Alera
SolitaryJustice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 06:06 AM   #523
Mr. Comic Book
Ensign
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
I think getting to a place that's new from a place that's familiar is part of the fun. ST09 was this, a transition to a new place and time. I think that an awesome mid-story could be a dark and gritty serial and a series would be in a future distant to us, maybe a generation who looks at Picard and Janeway like they saw Kirk and Sulu, badass. Trek never RELIED on the predecessors as much as it just barely mentioned them, albiet it did consistently have a formulaic feel.
You're not answering his question.

What point would backtracking to the old timeline serve the franchise?

What possible story reason would there be for doing so?

How would this, in any way, shape, or form, entice new fans to come in?

How would this not be anything other than sticking Trek right back into the niche ghetto that almost killed it and catering almost exclusively to the shrinking core fanbase of diehards?

I don't think these are unfair questions that are being asked.
Mr. Comic Book is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 06:43 AM   #524
David.Blue
Lieutenant Commander
 
David.Blue's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

I think I'd prefer a new series--if it takes place in the future--where you simply could not tell if it were the "original" timeline or the alternate.
David.Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2013, 10:22 AM   #525
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
As with all reboots and remakes, these will be quickly forgotten, especially since they don't bring anything substantial and new to the table. All they did until now was Part 1: The Reboot, and Part 2: The Re-Use of a Previous Villain.
Is that really all you've taken away from these movies ? I find it very unfortunate that you're so focused on not liking the reboot that it's the only thing you know about it.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
TNG referenced to TOS throughout the series as I expect in a generation after next show. They even had Bones on the first episode.
A handful of references, yes, but that's my point, which you didn't answer.
__________________
And that's my opinion.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
prime trek

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.