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Old September 24 2013, 03:12 AM   #76
Use of Time
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

The Abrams movies were ok. I'm happy they have had success and the associated sequels that it they will no doubt generate. I don't really get the need for all the gnashing of teeth or the subsequent defenses that set Star Trek fans against each other when it comes to the JJ verse. If you don't like them then just treat them as the stand alone films they are and disregard their impact on whatever "universe" you hold dear. But fandom is fandom I guess.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:17 AM   #77
Nerys Myk
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Use of Time wrote: View Post
The Abrams movies were ok. I'm happy they have had success and the associated sequels that it they will no doubt generate. I don't really get the need for all the gnashing of teeth or the subsequent defenses that set Star Trek fans against each other when it comes to the JJ verse. If you don't like them then just treat them as the stand alone films they are and disregard their impact on whatever "universe" you hold dear. But fandom is fandom I guess.
It's happened with every new iteration of Trek.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:32 AM   #78
Use of Time
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
The Abrams movies were ok. I'm happy they have had success and the associated sequels that it they will no doubt generate. I don't really get the need for all the gnashing of teeth or the subsequent defenses that set Star Trek fans against each other when it comes to the JJ verse. If you don't like them then just treat them as the stand alone films they are and disregard their impact on whatever "universe" you hold dear. But fandom is fandom I guess.
It's happened with every new iteration of Trek.
Oh no doubt. It's just that considering that these movies are a reboot and the main crying points are usually about how these movies deviate so strongly to the "real Star Trek." Seeing as how they are a reboot and actually contribute nothing to the original timeline, it shouldn't be that big of a deal to just watch the movies and disregard their impact on the Star Trek universe if you don't like them.

The original ten movies had a lasting impact on the timeline of Star Trek that couldn't really be ignored. You weren't able to just disregard them because they were steering the massive story of 4 TV franchises in a certain direction. Obviously those events would polarize the corps of the Star Trek fanbase.

It shouldn't be that hard to just watch JJ Trek in a vacuum and enjoy the ride.
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Old September 24 2013, 04:28 AM   #79
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
The Abrams movies were ok. I'm happy they have had success and the associated sequels that it they will no doubt generate. I don't really get the need for all the gnashing of teeth or the subsequent defenses that set Star Trek fans against each other when it comes to the JJ verse. If you don't like them then just treat them as the stand alone films they are and disregard their impact on whatever "universe" you hold dear. But fandom is fandom I guess.
It's happened with every new iteration of Trek.
Oh no doubt. It's just that considering that these movies are a reboot and the main crying points are usually about how these movies deviate so strongly to the "real Star Trek." Seeing as how they are a reboot and actually contribute nothing to the original timeline, it shouldn't be that big of a deal to just watch the movies and disregard their impact on the Star Trek universe if you don't like them.

The original ten movies had a lasting impact on the timeline of Star Trek that couldn't really be ignored. You weren't able to just disregard them because they were steering the massive story of 4 TV franchises in a certain direction. Obviously those events would polarize the corps of the Star Trek fanbase.

It shouldn't be that hard to just watch JJ Trek in a vacuum and enjoy the ride.
TMP, TWOK and TNG were reboots (after a fashion) and polarizing as well. And there are/were fans who would love to disregard any and all of the various films. The TOS films pretty much did their own thing and ignored what was happening on TV. "Unification" and TUC sorta "crossed over". And the TNG films crossed with DS9 out of necessity (Worf). Though,all the 24th Century films and series were interconnected because of Berman.
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Old September 24 2013, 04:31 AM   #80
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
I certainly feel that: TNG, DS9, VOY are the best of Trek [and TV in general...]. Those three shows contain the best acting, the most intruiging storylines & the most mature writing.
Did you see actually see TNG Seasons 1 and 2?
Great storylines and mature writing. Are you kidding me? Yes it got better.
How about "SubRosa", "Threshold", "A Fistful of Datas", the boxing Chakotay episode.

I think you're admiring the writing because it has a sort of sameness - consistency to it. You know whats going to happen next. Which can be a strength and a handicap.

I suppose TOS only had a bunch of hack science fiction writers for its stories.
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Old September 24 2013, 09:19 AM   #81
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
The Abrams movies were ok. I'm happy they have had success and the associated sequels that it they will no doubt generate. I don't really get the need for all the gnashing of teeth or the subsequent defenses that set Star Trek fans against each other when it comes to the JJ verse. If you don't like them then just treat them as the stand alone films they are and disregard their impact on whatever "universe" you hold dear. But fandom is fandom I guess.
It's happened with every new iteration of Trek.
Oh no doubt. It's just that considering that these movies are a reboot and the main crying points are usually about how these movies deviate so strongly to the "real Star Trek." Seeing as how they are a reboot and actually contribute nothing to the original timeline, it shouldn't be that big of a deal to just watch the movies and disregard their impact on the Star Trek universe if you don't like them.

The original ten movies had a lasting impact on the timeline of Star Trek that couldn't really be ignored. You weren't able to just disregard them because they were steering the massive story of 4 TV franchises in a certain direction. Obviously those events would polarize the corps of the Star Trek fanbase.

It shouldn't be that hard to just watch JJ Trek in a vacuum and enjoy the ride.
Some people just love to hate. If the next movie executed a script that followed the suggestions of those who hate the Abramsverse, it would be slammed by those same people for being predictable. There are some people who will just hate it to hate it, and will always find some kind of reason to do so; whether it be because the only people who like it are illiterates (I love the movies and I've been reading since I was 3!), just like big dumb action movies (I love deep, introspective movies), or aren't "real" Trek fans (I've been a fan since the age of 4, when my mother sat me down in front of TOS and I was hooked. That's 29 years of Trek fandom).

Usually they're ignored, but when someone posts something blatantly false, or opinion masqueraded as a fact, of course people are going to shoot it down, only to find that person getting into a fit because their opinion isn't accepted as fact. They don't like it, so you shouldn't like it, else you're not a "real, true" Trek fan.

They're fundamentalists, but instead of a classic religion, they've chosen their favorite Trek as their idol, and the heretics be damned.
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Old September 24 2013, 11:20 AM   #82
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

^Thanks for the ad hominem.
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Old September 24 2013, 12:10 PM   #83
Use of Time
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
It's happened with every new iteration of Trek.
Oh no doubt. It's just that considering that these movies are a reboot and the main crying points are usually about how these movies deviate so strongly to the "real Star Trek." Seeing as how they are a reboot and actually contribute nothing to the original timeline, it shouldn't be that big of a deal to just watch the movies and disregard their impact on the Star Trek universe if you don't like them.

The original ten movies had a lasting impact on the timeline of Star Trek that couldn't really be ignored. You weren't able to just disregard them because they were steering the massive story of 4 TV franchises in a certain direction. Obviously those events would polarize the corps of the Star Trek fanbase.

It shouldn't be that hard to just watch JJ Trek in a vacuum and enjoy the ride.
TMP, TWOK and TNG were reboots (after a fashion) and polarizing as well. And there are/were fans who would love to disregard any and all of the various films. The TOS films pretty much did their own thing and ignored what was happening on TV. "Unification" and TUC sorta "crossed over". And the TNG films crossed with DS9 out of necessity (Worf). Though,all the 24th Century films and series were interconnected because of Berman.
Spot on.
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Old September 24 2013, 12:44 PM   #84
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

My golden age is the period 1994-1996. Such a fun time to be a fan! In the space of those two years I had:

* The finale of TNG (still remember trotting down to John Menzies to pick up the video after school. October 1994)

* Build-up, hype and premiere of "Generations" (we in the UK got it in Feb 1995). This has to be the biggest "mass popularity" push Trek had (before 2009 at least).

* The release of Star Trek Monthly (a brand new monthly Trek magazine! March 1995)

* Premiere of Voyager (video released in the UK June 1995. Again, such clear memories of eagerly racing down to the shop to buy this one and then watch it with my friends)

* Season 4 of Ds9, all the speculation about Worf joining etc (1995; the series premiered on video here in the UK in Feb 1996)

* Loads of Trek merchanidse around; the book programme went into overdrive; loads of behind-the-scenes type books as well as novels. Plus toys, videos etc.

* 30th Anniversary of Trek - a whole BBC2 night of programming devoted to Trek, inc. the terrestrial premiere of Voyager (Aug 1996)

* Premiere of First Contact (December 1996). I went to its opening night in Oxford with my mates. Such good times

So there you go; just a great time to be a fan. I was 15/16, got some disposable income of my own for the first time etc... yeah. Good times.
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Old September 24 2013, 12:55 PM   #85
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

90s indeed, it started with TNG's season 3 and ended with the last season of DS9. After that the quality went downhill. Oh well good times.
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Old September 24 2013, 04:03 PM   #86
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

J. Allen wrote: View Post
They're fundamentalists, but instead of a classic religion, they've chosen their favorite Trek as their idol, and the heretics be damned.
I've no doubt that describes some fans. Then there are others, like me, who simply think the Abram's films are dull.
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Old September 24 2013, 05:51 PM   #87
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Nu trek doesn't have the advantage of having episodes to establish the characters the way TOS and TNG did.

If they rebooted it and added new stuff like Uhura's and Spock's relationship (I have to admit, I get nothing from it) then it's going to turn some fans off.

Then again, Trek franchise was lagging, and I don't necessarily think they wrote it entirely for Trek fans anyway. Business wise, that was a smart decision.

I don't think people who don't like Nutrek are bitter and close-minded, I suspect they don't like the recent 'blockbuster movie' formula it's written around.

Everything appears hyperactive, shallow, gimmicky with lots and lots and lots of explosions.

Remedy-- watch what you think is a lame movie (or marathon) during the holiday season when nothing else is on..this can make a movie grow on you.
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Old September 24 2013, 06:11 PM   #88
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Nu trek doesn't have the advantage of having episodes to establish the characters the way TOS and TNG did.

If they rebooted it and added new stuff like Uhura's and Spock's relationship (I have to admit, I get nothing from it) then it's going to turn some fans off.

Then again, Trek franchise was lagging, and I don't necessarily think they wrote it entirely for Trek fans anyway. Business wise, that was a smart decision.

I don't think people who don't like Nutrek are bitter and close-minded, I suspect they don't like the recent 'blockbuster movie' formula it's written around.

Everything appears hyperactive, shallow, gimmicky with lots and lots and lots of explosions.

Remedy-- watch what you think is a lame movie (or marathon) during the holiday season when nothing else is on..this can make a movie grow on you.
Absolutely spot on
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Old September 24 2013, 08:15 PM   #89
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Nu trek doesn't have the advantage of having episodes to establish the characters the way TOS and TNG did.
Kirk and Spock are pretty well-established characters.

I don't think people who don't like Nutrek are bitter and close-minded, I suspect they don't like the recent 'blockbuster movie' formula it's written around.
That's mainly what it is for me. Action movies today don't start with the script, they start with a list of ideas for set pieces, then a story is built around that. Call me old fashioned, but I think a movie should begin with the story, with a writer who actually has something to say. Instead of a story that builds to a climax, you have one action set piece after another; it makes for a flat movie experience. Setup, pay-off, next set piece; set-up, pay-off, next set piece.

That said, there are certainly are close-minded fans who would never accept a reboot of any kind. What they fail to see, and whether they want to admit it or not, is that Trek has already been rebooted several times.

Remedy-- watch what you think is a lame movie (or marathon) during the holiday season when nothing else is on..this can make a movie grow on you.
I have a better solution -- I just don't try to make myself like lame movies.
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Old September 24 2013, 09:18 PM   #90
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Praetor wrote: View Post
Kruezerman wrote: View Post
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
For me, TOS is quite a poor show [I love it], it just isn't written well enough.

...

TNG, DS9 & VOY are the pinnacle of the franchise.
Wow. I need a drink.
Poor me a double while you're at the bar, would ya?

If by pinnacle you mean saturation, sure maybe. But quality? Newp. And how do you say TOS is "poor"? By what criteria?
TOS is repetitive. It has about 2 plots it recycles constantly:

1. Super powered being threatens the ship. [Charlie X, Trelane, Abe Lincoln, Mitchell]
2. Kirk & someone beam down, end up stranded, ship is threatened.

This combines with frequent plot holes and nonsense [duplicate Earth in Miri, the greatest geological discovery of all time, never gets mentioned. Spock's Brain...The Empath....all full of nonsense]


CommishSleer wrote:
Did you see actually see TNG Seasons 1 and 2?
Great storylines and mature writing. Are you kidding me? Yes it got better.
How about "SubRosa", "Threshold", "A Fistful of Datas", the boxing Chakotay episode.

I think you're admiring the writing because it has a sort of sameness - consistency to it. You know whats going to happen next. Which can be a strength and a handicap.

I suppose TOS only had a bunch of hack science fiction writers for its stories.
*sigh* You are pointlessly quoting a few bad episodes out of hundreds produced by those 3 series. AS I STATED WAS THE CASE.

No it is not sameness. 'The Inner Light', 'Best of Both Worlds', 'Year of Hell', 'Far beyond the Stars' etc etc are all far better episodes than anything TOS could come up with.

Hober Mallow wrote:
So you're saying you're a Star Trek fan who doesn't like Star Trek?
No thats what you are saying. I stated I love TOS if you read my post. It simply IS the poorest of all the shows in my opinion. Its weakly written and frequently nonsensical.

Im aware, from my years of lurking here, how many fanboys of TOS are here. As much as I love it, I view TOS as more of a nostalgia-trip than anything even close to TNG, DS9, VOY. It simply isn't as deep, as clever, as moving, as sharp....

Some of the tones in response to my comment is disappointing. I really dont think it is deserving of 'eye-rolls' or 'I need a drink' comments to say: 21 seasons of TNG, DS9 & VOY are far better than anything the 3 of TOS produced.

And I do not care how many noses that statement puts out of joint.
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