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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: On What Would You Like A New Trek Series Based?
A Starship 38 65.52%
A Fleet 7 12.07%
A Station 2 3.45%
A Colony 7 12.07%
Other (please specify) 4 6.90%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 23 2013, 11:15 PM   #91
BillJ
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
Forgive my novice knowledge of how temporal mechanics works, but if Nero didn't create a new timeline replacing the original timeline, then why, in the Prime Universe, would there be a Department of Temporal Investigations that made sure that nothing was changed? They're all parallel universes, after all, right?
Why didn't they fix the muck-up of the timeline that Janeway made in Endgame? They're a storytelling tool. A tool used if they want to gum up the works of a time-travel story. Nothing more.


No, I reject that theory. You can't create a timeline and kill people essential to that timeline and expect that timeline to go on existing unchanged. Vulcan was destroyed as a result of Nero's incursion. Where does that leave Tuvok or any of the other younger future Vulcans? Were they still born? Do they still exist? Spock was immune, for what I imagine would be much the same way the Enterprise E crew still existed after the Borg tried to assimilate the past, protected by the Temporal Wake. But all of his compatriots from the future. Gone. Or changed. Will Kirk still get sucked into the Nexus and ultimately killed? Does it matter if there's no Guinan? No Enterprise D? How can they exist when the past is changed? What would have happened if Nero went to 1945? Would you and I still be here? Think about it.


The Prime timeline still exists. You can go out and play Star Trek Online right now and that story begins in the Prime timeline in the year 2401.
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Old September 23 2013, 11:54 PM   #92
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

I wouldn't quote STO is an example of prime continuity.
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Old September 24 2013, 01:52 AM   #93
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

Is STO even considered canon? I mean, if it is, then ST09 and STID are both non-existant movies. (Maybe we should push for that! lol)
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Old September 24 2013, 03:02 AM   #94
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
Is STO even considered canon? I mean, if it is, then ST09 and STID are both non-existant movies. (Maybe we should push for that! lol)
No it isn't canon. But I'm sad to see you still don't understand the underlying concepts of the alternate timeline.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:06 AM   #95
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
Is STO even considered canon? I mean, if it is, then ST09 and STID are both non-existant movies. (Maybe we should push for that! lol)
Or for the love of...the new movies aren't getting decanonized anytime in the near future. If anything, they might do what Gene did to swaths of TOS and decanonize the old in favor of the new.

And really, the whole concept of this or that being put in and out of canon is stupid to begin with. Besides, if a story has to lean on canon to be told, it's a bad story.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:06 AM   #96
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
Is STO even considered canon? I mean, if it is, then ST09 and STID are both non-existant movies. (Maybe we should push for that! lol)
No. It isn't even consistent with the novels, though it barrows a lot of elements from them.
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Old September 24 2013, 03:21 AM   #97
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

I haven't gotten on STO... I'm far too aware that I wouldn't have a social life at all. I'm gonna not hijack the post here, but I'm curious to know if it's as awesome as t looks.
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Old September 24 2013, 05:25 AM   #98
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

R. Star wrote: View Post
No. It isn't even consistent with the novels, though it barrows a lot of elements from them.
Wheel or antigravity?
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Old September 24 2013, 05:58 AM   #99
R. Star
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

And I'm sure you never accidentally misspelled something.
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Old September 24 2013, 05:26 PM   #100
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Again, The Abrams Time Line, didn't replace the Prime Time Line, they are running side by side, we just happen to be watching the Abrams Time Line. The Prime Time Line is still there intact, unbroken
Except for part where it doesn't exist anymore after Kirk's birthday. You see, what happened is that Nero and Spock Prime came from Prime Future, and when they came back, they changed the timeline. The Prime Timeline from Nero's incursion point onwards was/is being replaced by the Abrams Time Line. It's overwriting the Prime Timeline. They're not running side by side. This universe runs parallel to the Mirror Universe, which is differently entirely. That actually IS a separate timeline, with its own events that only slightly (when someone jumps across) effects this timeline. However, the future of, say, my great great grandson, who may have grown up to see Pike and the Talosians, will now see Kirk and the iEnterprise and a Kahn who is British.
You are totally wrong, as has been said by Bad Robot folks. The Abrams timeline, is not an overwrite, it is a completely seperate different timeline, and the Prime Time Line marches on as it always did. Check your DVD shelf, and you'll see your TNG Era Star Trek DVDs still show the same events they always did,t hey were unchanged the new timeline Nero created.

Prior to Nero's incursion, the timeline is the same, then Nero jumped in, made changes and the timeline split. Prime Time Line went it's own way, and Abrams Time Line went another way, both existing together side by side.
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Old September 24 2013, 05:37 PM   #101
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

I don't own any Star Trek DVDs, unfortunately. Money and I are only briefly friends before it goes to feeding the family. Are you saying that DVD covers are canon now, too? Did the timeline split after Star Trek IV? After "Tomorrow Is Yesterday"? After "Yesterday's Enterprise"? After "Assignment: Earth" or "All Good Things..." or "Past Tense" or "Year of Hell" or "Future's End" or the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise? These are all relevant futures, right, because Abrams Universe exists and didn't change anything. It just threw out everything we knew about time and history in a Trek future. So Picard and Riker are having this conversation in an episode of TNG (or a movie) about something that happened 80 years ago, and instead of Riker saying "that was the mission where James Kirk was killed", he says "that was the mission where James T. Kirk negated our existance..." umm... wait... what?
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Old September 24 2013, 05:47 PM   #102
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
I don't own any Star Trek DVDs, unfortunately. Money and I are only briefly friends before it goes to feeding the family. Are you saying that DVD covers are canon now, too? Did the timeline split after Star Trek IV? After "Tomorrow Is Yesterday"? After "Yesterday's Enterprise"? After "Assignment: Earth" or "All Good Things..." or "Past Tense" or "Year of Hell" or "Future's End" or the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise? These are all relevant futures, right, because Abrams Universe exists and didn't change anything. It just threw out everything we knew about time and history in a Trek future. So Picard and Riker are having this conversation in an episode of TNG (or a movie) about something that happened 80 years ago, and instead of Riker saying "that was the mission where James Kirk was killed", he says "that was the mission where James T. Kirk negated our existance..." umm... wait... what?
Star Trek already established, way before Abrams ever touched it, that time travel comes in different brands.

1. Any change causes a new timeline to be created alongside existing timeline (Parallels)
2. Time can be rewritten, Butterfly effect (City on the Edge of Forever)
3. It’s impossible to change history/the future, any change you attempt to make will correct itself (I don’t recall a specific instance offhand)

The Bad Robot team has stated, that the Nero Incursion resulted in the first type.
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Old September 24 2013, 05:50 PM   #103
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

SolitaryJustice wrote: View Post
I don't own any Star Trek DVDs, unfortunately. Money and I are only briefly friends before it goes to feeding the family. Are you saying that DVD covers are canon now, too? Did the timeline split after Star Trek IV? After "Tomorrow Is Yesterday"? After "Yesterday's Enterprise"? After "Assignment: Earth" or "All Good Things..." or "Past Tense" or "Year of Hell" or "Future's End" or the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise? These are all relevant futures, right, because Abrams Universe exists and didn't change anything. It just threw out everything we knew about time and history in a Trek future. So Picard and Riker are having this conversation in an episode of TNG (or a movie) about something that happened 80 years ago, and instead of Riker saying "that was the mission where James Kirk was killed", he says "that was the mission where James T. Kirk negated our existance..." umm... wait... what?
Actually, yes they did cause a split. TNG, Paraelles proves out there is a near infinite number of realities created and running along side the "Prime" timeline. Created by events big and small, all outcomes that are possible do happen. The crew, any crew, is only aware of the events along their perceived temporal reality.

I just used Yesterday's Enterprise in another thread but here we go again:

The divergent timeline has to exist in order for their to be an Alt-Tasha to go back in time and cross the timelines to be captured at Neranda III and then give birth to Sela. Anytime there is something that cross from one alt-timeline to the other, that originating timeline of that person/item has to exist in order for that person or item to exist to make the crossover.
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Old September 24 2013, 08:31 PM   #104
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

Time travel causes headaches. And not just because of the grammar. Here's the way I look at it:

Picard A commands the Enterprise-D in the timeline where Tasha Yar A is killed by the living tar pool. When the Enterprise-C goes through the time rift, reality shifts and it is Picard B who encounters them. Tasha B goes back in time, which in turn creates Picard C--native to a universe all-but-identical to that of Picard A.

Picard A still exists in his own timeline, one where Commander Sela never existed (although someone else might well have played her "role" in history).

Aside from all this is Picard D, whose timeline of the Federation at war with the Klingons but into whose timeline the Enterprise C never emerged.

There's also a Picard E, almost identical to Picard D save for some reason the Enterprise C didn't make it back into the past to change history.

All of these exist, but in their own timelines. TNG followed the adventures of Picard A and then those of Picard C.
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Old September 25 2013, 01:26 AM   #105
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Re: What Setting Would You Like For The Next Series?

So what you're saying is that you could be David.Blue J and I may be SolitaryJustice F... by that logic, you could be David.Blue FJSPRMFQ and I could be SolitaryJustice RQRPFNQWLF, because in the course of my life, there have been more than 26 moments where a choice had to be made, and each one of those choices creates a different reality. Wait until the Whovians hear this!
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