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Old September 23 2013, 06:02 PM   #31
Hober Mallow
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

To each his own. For me the Abrams Trek films are mediocre entertainment for an illiterate culture. But they're no worse than any other Hollywood action film.

Just because something is popular doesn't make it good -- unless one really considers TRANSFORMERS a great film.

But getting back on topic, I would argue that most of the Trek of the 90s wasn't really any better.
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Old September 23 2013, 06:10 PM   #32
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
To each his own. For me the Abrams Trek films are mediocre entertainment for an illiterate culture. But they're no worse than any other Hollywood action film.
I consider myself quite well-versed in multiple types of literature (I have and continue to read a lot) and I thought the films were great fun.

Part of the reason that many people's views get ignored or blasted is because they come in with exactly the same language and attitude you used above. No one likes to be called 'illiterate' because they enjoy a certain piece of entertainment.

It's fucking insulting.
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Old September 23 2013, 06:14 PM   #33
Forbin
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Action is fine in Trek so long as there's a purpose to it. TNG, by it's movie days, wasn't immune to the dumb action syndrome either. Unless you call a 60 year old man in a dune buggy chase with space orcs, quality writing.
That's just it - I was hoping a new, non-Berman Trek would be better than the craptastic TNG films were. maybe a harkening back to the early, idea-driven episodes of TOS.

Oh well.

Last edited by Forbin; September 24 2013 at 01:23 PM.
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Old September 23 2013, 06:20 PM   #34
WhateverMan
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
To each his own. For me the Abrams Trek films are mediocre entertainment for an illiterate culture. But they're no worse than any other Hollywood action film.

Just because something is popular doesn't make it good -- unless one really considers TRANSFORMERS a great film.

But getting back on topic, I would argue that most of the Trek of the 90s wasn't really any better.
I mostly agree. My point was never "anything I say is right and fuck everyone else". The 90's did bring some of the best Star Trek and some of the worst, but overall I think the quantity of good it brought outweighs the bad. The episodes are far from perfect and some of them do include dumb action, but the films brought it to a higher level. By films I mean both TNG and Abrams films.

Using popular opinion is pretty useless on this topic. Transformers is a good example, a film I saw once in theater and fell asleep during the finale. Completely worthless movie, it's ok to like it but it's not a good movie. It's hard to pin down the "Ultimate standard" for movies, so why bother.

But back on point... I guess the point is kinda obscured now.

90's Star Trek : Yay!
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Old September 23 2013, 06:25 PM   #35
Viper78
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
I love it when people bring out the "other people think I'm right" argument when discussing what's good or not. Just silly, unless you actually think people are as a whole mindless sheep going with the herd without thinking for themselves.
I believe in proving or disproving statements with facts and numbers:

WhateverMan wrote:
These are stupid action films, which is why many Trekkies call them stupid action films. Because they are... Stupid... Action... Films.
Judging by the results gathered on this board, many Trekkies do not feel that the Abrams films are "Stupid... Action... Films." Out of 668 votes, 530 ranked the movie a 'B-' or better.

For me personally, I like the film and that didn't change when 100 Trekkies in Las Vegas voted it the worst Trek movie ever.
Nor should it! The fact that I don't care much for the Abrams films doesn't mean that I speak for the majority or anyone else for that matter. The only person I can speak for is myself.
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Old September 23 2013, 06:58 PM   #36
R. Star
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post

I believe in proving or disproving statements with facts and numbers:
So if we were discussing our favorite color, you'd be bringing out the percentage of people who like red as evidence? As if there's a right and wrong answer. Different people have different tastes regarding entertainment. That's the only fact I'm aware of when discussing personal likes and dislikes.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:03 PM   #37
Franklin
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Forbin wrote: View Post
I dunno. While I enjoyed TNG and loved DS9, I think the golden age of Trek was in the '70s, when it was in the hands of the fans and our imaginations ran wild.
Yeah. I'd agree. The TOS phenomenon in the 1970s was unique for its time. In less than a decade, the cancelled TV show became so popular the prototype of the space shuttle was named for its starship and a feature film was released. An audience was discovered, and everything came after that.

If not the golden years, the 1980s were probably more successful than the 1990s, too. There were TOS films that were popular enough to bring about trying TNG, which brought Trek back to TV as a big ratings success in 1987.

But the 1990s? No. By the mid-1990s the TV ratings for all Trek shows were going down precipitously, and other than FC and TUC (1991), the movies in the 1990s tended to disappoint fans and critics, alike.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:12 PM   #38
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

R. Star wrote: View Post

So if we were discussing our favorite color, you'd be bringing out the percentage of people who like red as evidence? As if there's a right and wrong answer. Different people have different tastes regarding entertainment. That's the only fact I'm aware of when discussing personal likes and dislikes.
It's not about right or wrong, it's about getting facts straight.

If someone said this: "blue is the best color and most people dislike red", I would be interested if there were numbers that backed up the statement or if that person was simply talking out of their ass.

I've seen no numbers anywhere that backs up the assertion that many Trekkies think the Abrams films are "Stupid... Action... Films."

YMMV.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:13 PM   #39
22 Stars
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

I haven't been polled, and I didn't like STID either, so there. Add me to the number to prove your point... wrong.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:14 PM   #40
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

22 Stars wrote: View Post
I haven't been polled, and I didn't like STID either, so there. Add me to the number to prove your point... wrong.
No one is stopping you from voting in the poll in the Trek XI+ forum.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:15 PM   #41
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
To each his own. For me the Abrams Trek films are mediocre entertainment for an illiterate culture.
I love the movies, I'm a avid reader so um, where do I fit in?
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Old September 23 2013, 07:17 PM   #42
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
To each his own. For me the Abrams Trek films are mediocre entertainment for an illiterate culture.
I love the movies, I'm a avid reader so um, where do I fit in?
If you like the Abrams films you obviously live in a wood shed with outdoor "plumbing", reading only porn magazines.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:17 PM   #43
22 Stars
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post
22 Stars wrote: View Post
I haven't been polled, and I didn't like STID either, so there. Add me to the number to prove your point... wrong.
No one is stopping you from voting in the poll in the Trek XI+ forum.
Anything to convince you that 'people' don't all like the movie and thus they aren't that good
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Old September 23 2013, 07:21 PM   #44
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

22 Stars wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
22 Stars wrote: View Post
I haven't been polled, and I didn't like STID either, so there. Add me to the number to prove your point... wrong.
No one is stopping you from voting in the poll in the Trek XI+ forum.
Anything to convince you that 'people' don't all like the movie and thus they aren't that good
I don't think everyone likes the movies. That is an unrealistic expectation. But I do believe the vast majority of Trekkies do enjoy them to one degree or another and I believe the numbers from multiple sources bares that out.

I think it's great that there is a difference of opinion, it just seems like some here dislike the films due to the fact that they simply exist and are parroting points from a few people who are really, really unhappy that Abrams had the gall to go back to TOS.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:25 PM   #45
Viper78
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
To each his own. For me the Abrams Trek films are mediocre entertainment for an illiterate culture.
I love the movies, I'm a avid reader so um, where do I fit in?
If you like the Abrams films you obviously live in a wood shed with outdoor "plumbing", reading only porn magazines.
That made me laugh
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