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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 141 19.11%
A 160 21.68%
A- 99 13.41%
B+ 82 11.11%
B 58 7.86%
B- 27 3.66%
C+ 40 5.42%
C 38 5.15%
C- 24 3.25%
D+ 11 1.49%
D 13 1.76%
D- 10 1.36%
F 35 4.74%
Voters: 738. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 22 2013, 07:10 PM   #4816
Chemahkuu
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Scotty was pretty drunk and hardly keeping track of time. And the "one bloody day" thing is an expression, it may or may not be accurate in any way.

Don't forget, when the Enterprise departs its still in the early hours of the day, Kirk phones Scotty in the middle of the night, they return to Earth in what could be the late afternoon.

More like 36 hours.

Plus "advanced warp capability". Done.
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Old September 22 2013, 07:15 PM   #4817
Set Harth
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

The Enterprise doesn't have that advanced warp capability, though.

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
They even specifically point out in the film that there are in the Neutral Zone, lightyears from the planet.
I'm not so sure anymore. We do know they changed plans, though that raises the question of how they were planning on capturing Harrison without a means of hiding their presence such as a cloaking device. They are said to be 20 minutes from their destination when they are stopped, and it is said that this is 20 minutes in enemy space they weren't planning on. How are we to make sense of this? If they're talking about warp speed, and they're planning to sit and wait while the possibly warp-capable Mudd ship goes to Kronos, captures Harrison, and comes back, shouldn't they be talking about a duration of at least 40 minutes + however long it takes to apprehend Harrison? Also, later it is said that the Vengeance pursued them into, as opposed to out of, the Neutral Zone, but I know that can be interpreted in different ways.

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
All the maps at Starfleet HQ show the Neutral Zone and Kronos' relative positions, and the planet is much deeper into Klingon space.
There's a map visible in a certain video ( but not really visible in the film itself as far as I know ) which does seem to indicate that Kronos is, as we might expect, not right on the border and thus not accessible from the KNZ at sublight speeds in any reasonable amount of time. I'm just not entirely convinced that the content of the film agrees with that map. Also, I'm just assuming that the most prominent feature in the Klingon-space portion of the map is supposed to be Kronos, but it isn't labeled.

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
We don't know how long the Mudd ship was in warp flight there and back for.
Even though it's possible to assume the K'normian ship went to warp in a certain cut, the film seems to imply that the far-off object it's already aiming at when it leaves the Enterprise is Kronos. The background depiction of local space is the same, for example. However, I know this doesn't explain why the Enterprise was umolested by Klingon ships if it was so close to Kronos.
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Last edited by Set Harth; September 22 2013 at 07:25 PM.
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Old September 22 2013, 07:38 PM   #4818
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

They're on the edge fo the Zone. Kirk says so when Marcus shows up to take Khan. I think the 20 minute thing refers to them having to go it on impulse. Sulu saying that they're going to take longer than they planned to get in and out.
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Old September 22 2013, 07:42 PM   #4819
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Right, but that could still mean they're on the Klingon side.
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Old September 22 2013, 07:59 PM   #4820
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Right, but that could still mean they're on the Klingon side.
The lines are vague enough to work two ways:

1, They're on the Federation side; either with a toe on the line, oe hugging it close in friendly space

2, they're on the farside of the Zone hugging the Klingon edge of it.

I'm inclined toward Marcus blowing out the engines when they're closer to the farside, but still in the Neutral Zone; close enough not to be "in violation of the treaty" but far enough along it makes more sense to keep going with the mission and make repairs on route. Marcus--as most of his plans seems to be--is likely figuring on Kirk being cocksure and (frankly) stupid enough to continue on with a wounded ship. It works better with his plot to start a war.
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Old September 22 2013, 09:51 PM   #4821
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
I think the 20 minute thing refers to them having to go it on impulse.
Right. That was the point: Kronos is now 20 minutes away on impulse from the Neutral Zone, which is amazingly close.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:03 AM   #4822
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Well it's my first post on this discussion board. I'll admit to being very surprised how many people here actually think that the movie is one of several shades of A. I think that it's bad and I was very disappointed.

I grew up on Star Trek TOS being old enough to have appreciated the 3rd season still in its first run on TV. And then subsequent years in syndication. I have loved all of the other series and have all TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on DVD and pretty much watch them all the time. It did take me a while to get to know DS9 but now I love it.

I liked most of the movies.

We got the Into Darkness DVD when it was released a bit over a week ago. The kids like it so I've seen it three times.

I really don't like it and I was curious what other star trek fans actually thought as opposed to the general public. So I googled a bit and found this forum.

I guess I'm in the minority and I'm really surprised. Though I'm not here to say anyone is right or wrong. I am surprised.

To me it's just not Star Trek.

Military hats for Star Fleet officers? What? I understand that this is a "reboot" and a new timeline as of some 25 years from the time of the movie but millitary hats?

And I'm sorry but Klingons would not have different DNA as a result of a changed timeline from 25 years ago.

I liked Star Trek 2009 because I think it still had the star Trek feel. And no I don't know how better to describe that feel. That's even though it's preposterous to make a Star Fleet cadet who hasn't even graduated a full Captain. But I liked it.

I don't like Into Darkness. To me the whole feel is just off.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:18 AM   #4823
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

crazyfingers wrote: View Post

I grew up on Star Trek TOS being old enough to have appreciated the 3rd season still in its first run on TV. And then subsequent years in syndication. I have loved all of the other series and have all TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on DVD and pretty much watch them all the time. It did take me a while to get to know DS9 but now I love it.
I rated the film an 'A-', I found it flawed but fun too watch.

For me, Abrams brought back a sense of fun and adventure to the franchise that I feel Rick Berman completely sucked out. I started watching The Original Series in 1975 and like you own it all on DVD (the complete franchise) and everything that is available on Blu-ray.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:21 AM   #4824
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

crazyfingers wrote: View Post
Well it's my first post on this discussion board. I'll admit to being very surprised how many people here actually think that the movie is one of several shades of A. I think that it's bad and I was very disappointed.

I grew up on Star Trek TOS being old enough to have appreciated the 3rd season still in its first run on TV. And then subsequent years in syndication. I have loved all of the other series and have all TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on DVD and pretty much watch them all the time. It did take me a while to get to know DS9 but now I love it.

I liked most of the movies.

We got the Into Darkness DVD when it was released a bit over a week ago. The kids like it so I've seen it three times.

I really don't like it and I was curious what other star trek fans actually thought as opposed to the general public. So I googled a bit and found this forum.

I guess I'm in the minority and I'm really surprised. Though I'm not here to say anyone is right or wrong. I am surprised.

To me it's just not Star Trek.

Military hats for Star Fleet officers? What? I understand that this is a "reboot" and a new timeline as of some 25 years from the time of the movie but millitary hats?

And I'm sorry but Klingons would not have different DNA as a result of a changed timeline from 25 years ago.

I liked Star Trek 2009 because I think it still had the star Trek feel. And no I don't know how better to describe that feel. That's even though it's preposterous to make a Star Fleet cadet who hasn't even graduated a full Captain. But I liked it.

I don't like Into Darkness. To me the whole feel is just off.
Welcome on board crazyfingers! Likewise I must agree with your assessment, but as you rightly said we're in the minority here.

For me at least what really cheesed me off was how STID's ending fizzled out and how such potential in the first half of STID was squandered.

Also I know what you mean by the feeling being off, it's like something is missing or Star Trek is trying to be something it isn't and it ain't working out.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:26 AM   #4825
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
Also I know what you mean by the feeling being off, it's like something is missing or Star Trek is trying to be something it isn't and it ain't working out.
Aren't you someone who admits to not having watched all of TOS? Star Trek: The Original Series and Modern Trek are two distinct animals. Star Trek was action-adventure and Modern Trek was more of a straight drama. So if you hold the Abrams films against Modern Trek, obviously something will feel 'off'.

Whether or not a person likes or dislikes the films, I don't think there's much argument that they were built in the image of TOS, not the spin-offs.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:28 AM   #4826
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

crazyfingers wrote: View Post
Military hats for Star Fleet officers? What? I understand that this is a "reboot" and a new timeline as of some 25 years from the time of the movie but millitary hats?
A homage to Pike's hat from "The Cage", which ended up being used as set dressing rather than as an item of wardrobe. It was originally created as Robert April's officer cap, and was mentioned in an earlier version of the script of "The Cage.":
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star...s-2260s%29#Hat
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Old September 23 2013, 12:33 AM   #4827
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

May I extend a welcome, Crazyfingers.
Understand, we are a fun lot.
People may say otherwise, but
Please take time to observe before judging.
Everyone's opinions are welcome.
Thanks for sharing!
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Old September 23 2013, 12:45 AM   #4828
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
Also I know what you mean by the feeling being off, it's like something is missing or Star Trek is trying to be something it isn't and it ain't working out.
Aren't you someone who admits to not having watched all of TOS? Star Trek: The Original Series and Modern Trek are two distinct animals. Star Trek was action-adventure and Modern Trek was more of a straight drama. So if you hold the Abrams films against Modern Trek, obviously something will feel 'off'.

Whether or not a person likes or dislikes the films, I don't think there's much argument that they were built in the image of TOS, not the spin-offs.
Bingo. Yank all the sci-fi out of it, and TOS is just a western or cop show at it's core--both things Gene was familiar with working on, and it showed in TOS. TOS was also more of anthology style show: a consistent set of characters from show to show aside, the writing was less focused on continuity and world building and more on telling a good story. They weren't overly worried with contradicting prior episodes.
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Old September 23 2013, 01:02 AM   #4829
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Michael001 wrote: View Post
I am 51 and have been watching Star Trek since I can remember. last night with my wife away I rented Into Darkness. To say I was disappointed would be a huge understatement, in fact it is the only Star Trek movie I have ever fallen asleep while watching. Admittedly only for a few minutes.

The first movie with this new crew was very good and set the stage for a whole new Star Trek. With this latest offering they have taken the arguably the best Start Trek movie of all time "Wrath of Khan" and bastardized it! Nothing new and a very poor adaptation of the original.

With the huge budgets and an endless story possibilities available in a never ending universe, this is the best thing they could come up with?? Reversing the characters Kirk for Spock, in one of the most memorable scenes not just in Star Trek history but in cinematic history was a travesty. I was embarrassed.

What's with senior star fleet crew not only having a relationship but openly kissing on deck? I must be getting old and presume this sort of rubbish is aimed at a newer generation. I can't believe the new Star Trek viewers are that stupid!

Character development in this movie was puerile. Again, I must be showing my age but what's with the casual relationship and interactions between the captain and his subordinate officers and crew?

I just wanted to vent and will never post another comment. I joined today just to express my disappointment to people who might understand.
crazyfingers wrote: View Post
Well it's my first post on this discussion board. I'll admit to being very surprised how many people here actually think that the movie is one of several shades of A. I think that it's bad and I was very disappointed.

I grew up on Star Trek TOS being old enough to have appreciated the 3rd season still in its first run on TV. And then subsequent years in syndication. I have loved all of the other series and have all TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on DVD and pretty much watch them all the time. It did take me a while to get to know DS9 but now I love it.

I liked most of the movies.

We got the Into Darkness DVD when it was released a bit over a week ago. The kids like it so I've seen it three times.

I really don't like it and I was curious what other star trek fans actually thought as opposed to the general public. So I googled a bit and found this forum.

I guess I'm in the minority and I'm really surprised. Though I'm not here to say anyone is right or wrong. I am surprised.

To me it's just not Star Trek.

Military hats for Star Fleet officers? What? I understand that this is a "reboot" and a new timeline as of some 25 years from the time of the movie but millitary hats?

And I'm sorry but Klingons would not have different DNA as a result of a changed timeline from 25 years ago.

I liked Star Trek 2009 because I think it still had the star Trek feel. And no I don't know how better to describe that feel. That's even though it's preposterous to make a Star Fleet cadet who hasn't even graduated a full Captain. But I liked it.

I don't like Into Darkness. To me the whole feel is just off.
I figured I'd introduce the two of you. The resemblance is uncanny!
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Old September 23 2013, 01:04 AM   #4830
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

It's not the first time Star Trek looked so distinctly military:



At least in this film, compared to the Wrath of Khan, they argue they're not military.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
Also I know what you mean by the feeling being off, it's like something is missing or Star Trek is trying to be something it isn't and it ain't working out.
Aren't you someone who admits to not having watched all of TOS? Star Trek: The Original Series and Modern Trek are two distinct animals. Star Trek was action-adventure and Modern Trek was more of a straight drama. So if you hold the Abrams films against Modern Trek, obviously something will feel 'off'.

Whether or not a person likes or dislikes the films, I don't think there's much argument that they were built in the image of TOS, not the spin-offs.
Indeed, this over and over again. To an extent, I'm a bit annoyed at how much TNG and subsequent Treks have become the standard of what Trek is. Due to their popularity, this is understandable, of course, but people forget what TOS was really like, in my opinion.
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