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Old September 22 2013, 01:45 AM   #61
Shawnster
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Halliwell wrote: View Post
As much as I hate JJ-Prise, I hate the Vengeance more. It's JJ's version of an Uber ship. It's unattractive and silly to say the least. But I do like the question.
Now, I'm the opposite. I really, really, really dislike both Abrams movies and especially retch over the NuEnterprise. However, I find the Vengeance a much more pleasing design. It looks way more balanced and in proportion to itself than the NuEnterprise. I just ignore that it's monstrously retardedly huge.

MikeS wrote: View Post

We never actually see the crew of the 'E' get home after ST:FC. Perhaps it was like Back To The Future II, and they returned to a universe where Q owned a bikers casino and was sleeping with Picard's Mum. Inssurection and Nemesis must take place in The Nexus(TM).

This would explain why the previously never heard of Archer seems to have had such an important role in this NUniverse - His dad actually found something that enabled him to "invent" the warp five engine early.
USS Archer NCC 44277 was part of the battle group sent to intercept Shinzon in Nemesis. It's not that they didn't know about Archer, our heroes apparently just never cared to discuss him.
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Old September 22 2013, 01:46 AM   #62
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

publiusr wrote: View Post
Looks like something salvaged from Narada--not to mention the D-7 Archer encountered. Here is where the JJ timeline begins.
I admit, the Abramverse being the result of Narada debris ending up scattered in its past is intriguing and would certainly explain a lot. But I don't agree that Enterprise itself is a result of this changed timeline, and those two examples are purely coincidental. The Romulan drone ship was just a reused ship of the week from Voyager while it was intended to use a new Klingon design in Unexpected and indeed a ship was drawn. There just wasn't time to do up a CG mesh so they used the only one they had on file that would fit in a pre-TOS timeframe.
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Old September 22 2013, 02:42 AM   #63
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Agreed. The Flashpoint explanation actually works for me too. If it's good enough for funnybooks...
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Old September 22 2013, 03:02 AM   #64
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Yeah....like a 1913 Battleship could beat a 2013 destroyer... ANSWER: Enterprise E is wayyyy more powerful. Those "Dated" phaser beams are hellova much more powerful than the weapons on the Vengence. Those Qauntum Torpedoes would make it seem as if the Vengence's shields weren't even there. as a said a 1913 Battleship (Vengence) could not beat a 2013 Destroyer (Enterprise E)
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Old September 22 2013, 05:34 PM   #65
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Just for comparison. No time to look up destructive yields

1913 US Battleship. Pennsylvania Class
Armament: 2013 US Destroyer, Zumwalt Class


Armament: 20 × MK 57 VLS modules, with 4 vertical launch cells in each module, 80 cells total. Each cell can hold one or more missiles, depending on the size of the missiles.
Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM)
Tactical Tomahawk Vertical Launch Anti-Submarine Rocket (ASROC)
2 × 155 mm Advanced Gun System
920 × 155 mm total; 600 in automated store + Auxiliary store room with up to 320 rounds (non-automatic) as of April 2005
70-100 LRLAP rounds planned as of 2005 of total
2 × Mk 110 57 mm gun (CIWS)
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Old September 22 2013, 09:05 PM   #66
Mycroft Maxwell
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Thanks dude!!!Actually helps my point. the Penn. Class is loaded down with artilary to pack a punch. The Zumwalt however would annihilate that battleship before it could even get into firing range.
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Old September 22 2013, 09:22 PM   #67
Sci
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Praetor wrote: View Post
The E should theoretically win, if technological patterns are consistent.
Bold added.

This is the key. We have no idea if technological patterns are consistent, or if Abramsverse tech got a jump-start due to timeline contamination. We have no data one way or the other, so both scenarios -- that Abramsverse weapons of the 23rd Century are comparable to those of the Prime 23rd Century, or that Abramsverse weapons of the 23rd Century are equal to or more advanced than those of the Prime 24th Century -- are plausible.
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Old September 22 2013, 09:24 PM   #68
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Now the Iowa class (Vengeance) would smoke a modern Aegis class ship--if it got close enough.

Galaxy was a ship of exploration, and it got replaced by Ent-E due to the Borg threat..but Ent-E is still a good well rounded starship. Vengeance isn't--it is a flying weapons battery.

Also, some of Scotty's transwarp beaming ideas may have gotten back to Khan, who may have been Section 31's version of Neil Turok at Perimeter Institute.

Hard to say.
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Old September 22 2013, 09:36 PM   #69
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

publiusr wrote: View Post
Galaxy was a ship of exploration, and it got replaced by Ent-E due to the Borg threat..but Ent-E is still a good well rounded starship. Vengeance isn't--it is a flying weapons battery.
I see no reason to think the Galaxy class was "replaced" by the Sovereign class -- especially since we see numerous Galaxy-class starships participating in key engagements throughout the Dominion War, yet we've only ever seen a single Sovereign-class starship in the Enterprise-E.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:06 AM   #70
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

I agree. The Sovereign class ship was probably just deemed a good choice to be the new Enterprise, but there's no reason to think the class was being replaced. If the TNG TM is to be believed, then the Galaxy class was designed for a one hundred year lifespan.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:18 AM   #71
Mycroft Maxwell
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

YEah, the Galaxy class was still very new when the Sovereign class went into service. The Galaxy class is heavily armed. I remember there was always people in the show making a big deal in Ds9 especially when something had more fire power than a galaxy class starship.

The Phaser Arrays on 24th century vessels take from a single power source unlike the weapons in the 23rd century that used phaser BANKS. Each beam in the 24th cenutry has several times more power pouring through them than the dual beams of 23rd century vessels. (However it would seem they went back to some sort of seperate power cells for the pulse phaser turrets of the Defiant).
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Old September 23 2013, 02:26 AM   #72
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
YEah, the Galaxy class was still very new when the Sovereign class went into service.

Galaxy Class introduction prior to but close to Stardate 41153.7
Sovereign Class USS Enterprise-E launched Stardate 49827.5

1,000 stardate units generally accepted as 1 year makes the Galaxy class roughly 8 years old before Sovereign Class launched.
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Old September 23 2013, 02:40 AM   #73
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Which is relatively new. 8 years for a ship designed for 100?
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Old September 23 2013, 04:32 AM   #74
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
Shawnster wrote: View Post
Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
YEah, the Galaxy class was still very new when the Sovereign class went into service.
Galaxy Class introduction prior to but close to Stardate 41153.7
Sovereign Class USS Enterprise-E launched Stardate 49827.5

1,000 stardate units generally accepted as 1 year makes the Galaxy class roughly 8 years old before Sovereign Class launched.
Which is relatively new. 8 years for a ship designed for 100?
Exactly. Hell, 8 years is still very new even by the standards of a modern aircraft carrier.
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Old September 23 2013, 02:24 PM   #75
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Sci wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
Galaxy was a ship of exploration, and it got replaced by Ent-E due to the Borg threat..but Ent-E is still a good well rounded starship. Vengeance isn't--it is a flying weapons battery.
I see no reason to think the Galaxy class was "replaced" by the Sovereign class -- especially since we see numerous Galaxy-class starships participating in key engagements throughout the Dominion War, yet we've only ever seen a single Sovereign-class starship in the Enterprise-E.
As the Galaxy replaced the Ambassador as the flagship class. I had always thought of the Sovereign Class as the successor to the Excelsior class rather than a replacement for the relatively new Galaxy Class. Can't see why the Galaxy class would need to be replaced after 8 years.

Had the Ent-D survived I'm sure it would have remained the flagship for many years.
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