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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 22 2013, 05:00 PM   #16
Praetor
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

I was under impression that enough was salvageable from the bridge set that they were later able to use it for the Enterprise-D battle bridge and Stargazer bridge - although, it's interesting that the next time we should see this bridge, as the Hathaway, it's a mostly or entirely new set that I think started life as the courtroom in "The Measure of a Man."

Does anyone know when the tarp incident occurred? Perhaps it was between Season One and Two of TNG, and that'd explain why the set suddenly changes.

The TMP bridge was great, but in hindsight feels very primitive to me, for some reason even moreso than the TOS bridge. I can accept the TOS bridge being very low-fi but the TMP bridge just feels very... dated. I really liked the redesign that came about for TFF, although I like the TUC color scheme more. (I dislike that they moved the turbolift stops, though. Not quite sure why they did that.) The thing about the TNG sets being used in TFF that bothers me is that they're so painfully, obviously the TNG sets with no modification. I'm aware that Mr. Shatner liked the aesthetic and hence the bridge was created to match, but TUC proves that some refitting can nicely help distinguish them so it's not so painfully obvious. As I recall most of the "widening" that took place for the TNG corridors consisted or removing the angled braces, in addition to altering the paint and lighting.

Of course, the warp core was still painfully the same, but I guess you can't win em all.
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Old September 22 2013, 06:23 PM   #17
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

Praetor wrote: View Post
I was under impression that enough was salvageable from the bridge set that they were later able to use it for the Enterprise-D battle bridge and Stargazer bridge - although, it's interesting that the next time we should see this bridge, as the Hathaway, it's a mostly or entirely new set that I think started life as the courtroom in "The Measure of a Man."
As I said, there are two different aspects of a "set" -- the underlying wooden superstructure and the surface facades/dressings. The latter are often far more flimsy and ephemeral than they appear. When we talk about redressing a set, sometimes that means stripping it down to the bare structure and building new facades onto it. That's what they did when they revamped the TMP sets for TNG and then VGR. So it can look completely different to the viewer's eye but still be the same set in that it's still the same underlying framework at the same location within the same soundstage.

And yes, the "Measure" courtroom was another redress of the TMP bridge set. The visible details, the facades and dressings, were different, but they were built within the same framework on Stage 9 and had the same dimensions. Data's cybernetics lab in "The Offspring" and "The Best of Both Worlds" was also a redress of the bridge set.

But of course some redresses are more wholesale than others. For instance, since they made the surface elements for the "Measure" courtroom, it was useful to recycle them for the Hathaway bridge. Just as the Stargazer bridge before it had been just a fairly light redress of the battle bridge set, with different consoles and seats but the same shape and structure, essentially just the back half of the set with a new, closer front wall put in.


The thing about the TNG sets being used in TFF that bothers me is that they're so painfully, obviously the TNG sets with no modification. I'm aware that Mr. Shatner liked the aesthetic and hence the bridge was created to match, but TUC proves that some refitting can nicely help distinguish them so it's not so painfully obvious.
That's a surprising comment, because to me it's precisely the other way around. TFF had a bunch of new sets -- the bridge, the maintenance corridors (which were then recycled in TNG: "The Hunted" as the Jefferies tubes), the brig, the turboshaft (much as we try to ignore it), and a hangar deck that was basically a full-scale recreation of the TOS hangar. The transporter alcove is unchanged from TNG, but the rest of the transporter room is redressed back to TMP specs. The officer's lounge was probably a Ten Forward redress, but extensively enough that it isn't obvious. The corridors look the same, but they'd looked pretty much the same since TMP. Sickbay does have some TNG-style Okudagrams on the wall display, but we barely get a glimpse of it. And the engine room isn't seen at all. I'd say that they mostly did a good job hiding the reuse of TNG sets.

Conversely, in TUC, engineering is obviously the TNG engine room with its distinctive warp core and 24th-century Okudagrams. There's a blatant TNG-style replicator alcove in the crew-quarters set. The transporter room has the TFF-style console and shielding, but otherwise it's essentially in its TNG configuration. The officer's lounge is obviously the TNG lounge with its distinctively shaped windows; only the walls and table are redressed, plus the fancy light fixture above the table. The President's office is recognizably a Ten Forward redress, with the same doors and with the shape of the windows concealed only by curtains, while the TFF lounge had different windows and doors. Sickbay has movie-era beds but the overall room is clearly the TNG set. The use of redressed TNG sets is far, far more blatant in TUC.
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Old September 22 2013, 08:57 PM   #18
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

It all comes down to one word "Budget"
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Old September 23 2013, 12:17 AM   #19
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

Christopher wrote: View Post
But of course some redresses are more wholesale than others. For instance, since they made the surface elements for the "Measure" courtroom, it was useful to recycle them for the Hathaway bridge. Just as the Stargazer bridge before it had been just a fairly light redress of the battle bridge set, with different consoles and seats but the same shape and structure, essentially just the back half of the set with a new, closer front wall put in.
Great points. On this topic, do you suppose that it was redressed/refurbished the way it was with the intention that it could eventually be used as another bridge, battle bridge et al? I've always thought it was a strange layout for a courtroom, what with the raised section and the obvious viewscreen behind the judge.

Christopher wrote: View Post
That's a surprising comment, because to me it's precisely the other way around. TFF had a bunch of new sets -- the bridge, the maintenance corridors (which were then recycled in TNG: "The Hunted" as the Jefferies tubes), the brig, the turboshaft (much as we try to ignore it), and a hangar deck that was basically a full-scale recreation of the TOS hangar. The transporter alcove is unchanged from TNG, but the rest of the transporter room is redressed back to TMP specs. The officer's lounge was probably a Ten Forward redress, but extensively enough that it isn't obvious. The corridors look the same, but they'd looked pretty much the same since TMP. Sickbay does have some TNG-style Okudagrams on the wall display, but we barely get a glimpse of it. And the engine room isn't seen at all. I'd say that they mostly did a good job hiding the reuse of TNG sets.

Conversely, in TUC, engineering is obviously the TNG engine room with its distinctive warp core and 24th-century Okudagrams. There's a blatant TNG-style replicator alcove in the crew-quarters set. The transporter room has the TFF-style console and shielding, but otherwise it's essentially in its TNG configuration. The officer's lounge is obviously the TNG lounge with its distinctively shaped windows; only the walls and table are redressed, plus the fancy light fixture above the table. The President's office is recognizably a Ten Forward redress, with the same doors and with the shape of the windows concealed only by curtains, while the TFF lounge had different windows and doors. Sickbay has movie-era beds but the overall room is clearly the TNG set. The use of redressed TNG sets is far, far more blatant in TUC.
I admit that TFF has a good amount of new sets, but when they are reusing TNG sets it seems so obvious because of the lack of redressing. The scene with Sybok's armed men running down the corridor comes to mind - it was just so blatantly obvious that it was the TNG corridor set. There were no changes to color, lighting, or anything. The orange doors even had their TNG-style labels on them. And I'm pretty sure they just used the TNG sickbay - I think Scotty was in the main bed under the circular ceiling piece. IIRC you can even see the ceiling piece at one point.

Other than the warp core, in TUC, they actually made an effort to redress, re-color and differently light the sets. The warp core would have been a hard one to work around... frankly since it was relatively unnecessary for the plot I'd almost rather they just left it out or shot it from such an angle as to not show the core. I guess though, the effort put forth is why I can be more forgiving.

Different strokes, I guess.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:43 AM   #20
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

Praetor wrote: View Post
I admit that TFF has a good amount of new sets, but when they are reusing TNG sets it seems so obvious because of the lack of redressing. The scene with Sybok's armed men running down the corridor comes to mind - it was just so blatantly obvious that it was the TNG corridor set. There were no changes to color, lighting, or anything. The orange doors even had their TNG-style labels on them.
That doesn't bother me much, since the TNG corridors were barely altered from the TMP corridors to begin with. And like I said, we barely saw sickbay. It wasn't a featured set like the reused ones in TUC.

Other than the warp core, in TUC, they actually made an effort to redress, re-color and differently light the sets.
Although as I've said, they redressed the transporter room less than TFF did. And if the TFF lounge was a Ten Forward redress, it was more substantially altered than the President's office was. So I can't agree that TUC made more of an effort to change the sets than TFF did, not on the whole.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:48 AM   #21
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

I liked the Enterprise-A bridge from the end of The Voyage Home.
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Old September 23 2013, 01:49 AM   #22
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

One thing it'd be interesting to track is that for phase 2, they pulled 6 extra skins when casting the various bridge modules. The idea was they'd have stuff in case they needed to blow up a whole wall (at least that's what I remember the memo saying), but I think it was more so they could quickly mockup a different starship as needed. Blowing up fiberglass is just NOT a good idea.

I've often wondered if those saw use in early TNG on those mix-n-match battle bridges and the like. Can't believe they'd've let them go to waste. I'm pretty sure they weren't used for RELIANT, because the different look of that bridge was done (according to a Mike Minor STARLOG interviews) with not much more than balsa wood and paper decals, since those stations get blown up in mid film and during the climactic action.
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Old September 23 2013, 02:23 AM   #23
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

The set didn't look so garish when it was lit more subtly, as seen in this Good Morning America segment from 1986:



Also, the Memory Alpha article says that only the section of the set seen in the film was given the white paint job and Okudagram control panels, but as you can see from this photo of Gene and Majel at the Science station, that is clearly not the case:



Maybe the set wasn't fully overhauled until after Star Trek IV wrapped, but clearly at some point before TNG went into production the entire set was given the Enterprise-A makeover, no doubt with the intention to continue using it in the films.
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Old September 23 2013, 02:25 AM   #24
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

Speaking of the Excelsior bridge, I remember even back in the day thinking it looked terrible in STIII, like something quickly cobbled together for a TV movie.

EDIT: Damn, that's some hair Joan London's sporting...
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Old September 23 2013, 02:50 AM   #25
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

Praetor wrote: View Post
(I dislike that they moved the turbolift stops, though. Not quite sure why they did that.)
While there might have been other reasons for rearranging the wall modules, I'm sure the ability to compose this final group shot was a contributing factor. Kept in the TFF configuration, Spock and Uhura would both be out of frame unless they got up for no reason to stand by the railing.
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Old September 23 2013, 03:00 AM   #26
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

Also, I think it made an excuse to turn the 1 divider behind the captains chair in TFF, to a 2 divider, making it a 3 section.



heres the complete gallery at ex astris that has illustrations of all incarnations of the enterprise bridge.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges1.htm

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Old September 23 2013, 03:14 AM   #27
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

^The Master Systems Display behind Kirk is actually the same size in both movies, but instead of having two whole wall units with a divider down the middle, you have one whole wall unit right behind Kirk (instead of the divider), and two half-units flanking the large one.

Also, EAS doesn't allow hotlinking to their images.
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Old September 23 2013, 03:59 AM   #28
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

Wait this is hotlinking? I knew i coundn't just post the images. But i didnt realize posting the links was hotlinking. I'll remove them. I don't want Bernd mad at me. Is a link to the gallery at the site still hotlinking?
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Old September 23 2013, 12:27 PM   #29
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

He has his website set up so you can't directly link to any of his images. The revised link you posted is fine.
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Old September 25 2013, 01:09 AM   #30
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Re: Was the Star Trek 4 Ent-A bridge a redress of the Excelsior bridge

cardinal biggles wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
(I dislike that they moved the turbolift stops, though. Not quite sure why they did that.)
While there might have been other reasons for rearranging the wall modules, I'm sure the ability to compose this final group shot was a contributing factor. Kept in the TFF configuration, Spock and Uhura would both be out of frame unless they got up for no reason to stand by the railing.
That, and this nifty shot where camera follows Kirk coming out the Turbolift, seeing Spock and Valaris come out the one on the opposite side. I know this isn't the exact frame but its the closest one I could find.
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