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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 20 2013, 02:30 PM   #106
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

I think it can still work, considering Kirk's somewhat tenuous relationship with the rules. "Other people get promoted and never get a ship again, but not me." OTOH, Commodore Decker had a ship, so it might not be as big a deal as we thought.

The crux of it might be that Kirk was so good that he ascended quickly to be head of Starfleet Operations, to the point where he was doing more good for Starfleet and the Federation there, and felt obligated, but tortured, about not commanding a starship.

Regarding TMP, we fairly well know it should take place no later than 2278. Are there any reasons to push it later than 2273, though? We use the "two and a half years" line to keep it close to the original series, which somewhat fits with the uniforms... but is there really any reason to? Especially when the movie was made in '78 and everyone is noticeably older?
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Old September 20 2013, 09:40 PM   #107
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

I'm OK with having a bigger gap between TMP and TWOK than TOS and TMP, even though it's only 3-4 years between the former, the cast looks much older and less fit in TWOK for some reason.
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Old September 20 2013, 11:27 PM   #108
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Shouldn't it be about a decade between the two films?

Kirk is 34 in The Deadly Years. If we assume that is year two of the five-year mission, it means they finished up somewhere around the time he is 37. He hadn't logged a single star-hour in 2.5 years in TMP which would push him close to 40. In TWoK, it seems the intent is that he's celebrating his 50th birthday.
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Old September 21 2013, 01:18 AM   #109
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Great point! If Kirk's turning 50 in TWOK (which makes perfect sense) and we know Kirk to be born in 2233 from ID... then TWOK must take place in 2283. In turn, that renders the discussion about the Romulan Ale a sarcastic one.

I'm not clear why that would make TMP 10 years earlier though?
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Old September 21 2013, 02:00 AM   #110
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Praetor wrote: View Post

I'm not clear why that would make TMP 10 years earlier though?
I think I was pretty clear on my thoughts:

BillJ wrote:
Shouldn't it be about a decade between the two films?

Kirk is 34 in The Deadly Years. If we assume that is year two of the five-year mission, it means they finished up somewhere around the time he is 37. He hadn't logged a single star-hour in 2.5 years in TMP which would push him close to 40. In TWoK, it seems the intent is that he's celebrating his 50th birthday.
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Old September 21 2013, 05:06 AM   #111
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Noddy wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, Star Trek: Generations established that 78 years transpired between the maiden voyage of the Enterprise-B (2293) and the final voyage of the Enterprise-D (2371).
That's something else I've never fully understood. Why does the beginning of GEN have to take place in the same year as TUC? It would make more sense if it was a year or two later, as TUC ends with the Enterprise-A being decommisioned, and GEN begins with Enterprise-B ready to launch.
Yeah, most of the novels released around the time GEN hit theaters (and afterwards) used 2294 as the launch-date of the Enterprise-B (including the novel Federation, which came out about a full month or so prior to the movie), but later sources retconned this to 2293, the same year as TUC.

Not sure where the 2294-figure got started as a thing, since the first season of TNG is clearly established as occurring in 2364 (the episode, "The Neutral Zone," takes place near the very end of that year), with six more story-years taking places afterwards, with the 24th Century portions of Generations possessing stardates set one year further after THAT...i.e., in 2371.

There are quite a few stories set after the events of Star Trek VI, before the launch, involving the original crew (The Ashes of Eden, Sarek, Mind Meld, The Last Roundup, The Fearful Summons, Shadows on the Sun, et al), which now have to be squeezed into those months between the films.

Not a huge deal, as most stories tend to take place over a period of days or weeks at most, but these things still happen occasionally.
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Old September 21 2013, 11:59 AM   #112
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Leto_II wrote: View Post
Noddy wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, Star Trek: Generations established that 78 years transpired between the maiden voyage of the Enterprise-B (2293) and the final voyage of the Enterprise-D (2371).
That's something else I've never fully understood. Why does the beginning of GEN have to take place in the same year as TUC? It would make more sense if it was a year or two later, as TUC ends with the Enterprise-A being decommisioned, and GEN begins with Enterprise-B ready to launch.
Yeah, most of the novels released around the time GEN hit theaters (and afterwards) used 2294 as the launch-date of the Enterprise-B (including the novel Federation, which came out about a full month or so prior to the movie), but later sources retconned this to 2293, the same year as TUC.

Not sure where the 2294-figure got started as a thing, since the first season of TNG is clearly established as occurring in 2364 (the episode, "The Neutral Zone," takes place near the very end of that year), with six more story-years taking places afterwards, with the 24th Century portions of Generations possessing stardates set one year further after THAT...i.e., in 2371.
And if we take Data's statement in Generations that the Nexus sweeps through our Galaxy every 39 years, then the Enterprise-B encountered the Nexus in 2293 (it fits the "78 years later" when we see the TNG gang nicely).
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Old September 21 2013, 04:31 PM   #113
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post

I'm not clear why that would make TMP 10 years earlier though?
I think I was pretty clear on my thoughts:

BillJ wrote:
Shouldn't it be about a decade between the two films?

Kirk is 34 in The Deadly Years. If we assume that is year two of the five-year mission, it means they finished up somewhere around the time he is 37. He hadn't logged a single star-hour in 2.5 years in TMP which would push him close to 40. In TWoK, it seems the intent is that he's celebrating his 50th birthday.
Well, not really. Perhaps my question was unclearly stated.

All we know is that Kirk was 34 in "The Deadly Years," and TWOK is probably Kirk's 50th birthday. Beyond the fact that the 2.5 years of no space travel took place somewhere between the two, I would think we actually have no idea where TMP would fall.
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Old September 21 2013, 06:09 PM   #114
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

It probably makes more sense to have TUC occur in 2291, going with the usual 300 year shift from the production date. That way, the E-B launch is two years after, which allows the E-A to have a "final" voyage (and downtime between ships). Given the dates above, we'd have:

Space Seed - 2267/8 (15ish years before TWOK)
TMP - 2273
TWOK/TSFS/TVH - 2283-84
TFF - 2284
E-A crew disbands - 2285ish
Sulu gets Excelsior - 2288
TUC - 2291
GEN - 2293
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Old September 21 2013, 06:18 PM   #115
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
It probably makes more sense to have TUC occur in 2291, going with the usual 300 year shift from the production date.
Then that shifts McCoy's arrival on the Enterprise as CMO two years earlier to 2264, which means he originally served on the ship under Pike (McCoy said in Star Trek VI he had been the Enterprise's CMO for 27 years, and VOY established Kirk's 5-year mission as taking place between 2265-2270).
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Old September 21 2013, 06:24 PM   #116
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
It probably makes more sense to have TUC occur in 2291, going with the usual 300 year shift from the production date.
Then that shifts McCoy's arrival on the Enterprise as CMO two years earlier to 2264, which means he originally served on the ship under Pike (McCoy said in Star Trek VI he had been the Enterprise's CMO for 27 years, and VOY established Kirk's 5-year mission as taking place between 2265-2270).
What's to say he didn't serve under Pike for a little while? Or perhaps the Enterprise was in drydock for a 2-year refit between Pike and Kirk (2263-2265). So, McCoy came on board mid-way through the process.
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Old September 21 2013, 06:56 PM   #117
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
It probably makes more sense to have TUC occur in 2291, going with the usual 300 year shift from the production date.
Then that shifts McCoy's arrival on the Enterprise as CMO two years earlier to 2264, which means he originally served on the ship under Pike (McCoy said in Star Trek VI he had been the Enterprise's CMO for 27 years, and VOY established Kirk's 5-year mission as taking place between 2265-2270).
What's to say he didn't serve under Pike for a little while?
"The Menagerie." Kirk said only Spock had served previously with Pike and McCoy didn't correct him.
Or perhaps the Enterprise was in drydock for a 2-year refit between Pike and Kirk (2263-2265). So, McCoy came on board mid-way through the process.
It seems way easier to just place McCoy's arrival in 2266 after Doctor Piper's tenure as CMO than to retcon "The Menagerie."
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Old September 21 2013, 06:59 PM   #118
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It seems way easier to just place McCoy's arrival in 2266 after Doctor Piper's tenure as CMO than to retcon "The Menagerie."
If Crusher were asked how long she had served as CMO on the E-D, would she care to count the year (season 2) she was "on sabbatical"? Perhaps McCoy took a leave of absence and Piper was his replacement during that time.
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Old September 21 2013, 07:29 PM   #119
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It seems way easier to just place McCoy's arrival in 2266 after Doctor Piper's tenure as CMO than to retcon "The Menagerie."
If Crusher were asked how long she had served as CMO on the E-D, would she care to count the year (season 2) she was "on sabbatical"? Perhaps McCoy took a leave of absence and Piper was his replacement during that time.
Only if you really personally want to place Star Trek VI in 2291, otherwise it's easily a straightforward case that McCoy succeeded Piper as Enterprise CMO in 2266 and served in that capacity for 27 years before moving on in 2293.
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Old September 21 2013, 08:38 PM   #120
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It seems way easier to just place McCoy's arrival in 2266 after Doctor Piper's tenure as CMO than to retcon "The Menagerie."
If Crusher were asked how long she had served as CMO on the E-D, would she care to count the year (season 2) she was "on sabbatical"? Perhaps McCoy took a leave of absence and Piper was his replacement during that time.
Only if you really personally want to place Star Trek VI in 2291, otherwise it's easily a straightforward case that McCoy succeeded Piper as Enterprise CMO in 2266 and served in that capacity for 27 years before moving on in 2293.
"Personally"? Is there an official record of when McCoy signed aboard? If not, then *every* timeline is "personal" to someone who wants it to be that way.
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