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Old September 20 2013, 09:02 AM   #16
Tiberius
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

oddsigve wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
I don't buy it because how could we have all those fossils and not a single shred of evidence that they had a civilization or spaceflight?
As they pointed out in the episode it`s been so long since they evolved that meteors, volcanic eruptions, erosion etc. have buried all traces far beneath the earths surface. Though I agree the likelihood is decimal.
That was the lamest explanation they could possibly give. Remove all traces of this advanced dinosaur civilisation that had space travel and thus the mass infrastructure required to build spaceships - but leave the fossil dinosaurs behind? Any force which removes all traces of a civilisation's accomplishments leaving just traces on the inhabitants is way too selective for my tastes.

it would have been far better if it had been that the hadrosaurs had developed a primitive society, with complex social hierarchies but they lacked the technology. Then the preservers came, recognised the culutre that they had and then transported them to the Delta Q where they developed into the Voth civilisation that we saw.
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Old September 20 2013, 04:47 PM   #17
Pavonis
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

Fossils are actually very rare. Maybe at best 1% of specimens are fossilized (and that may be a high estimate), and how many of those are recovered? Even fewer.

So if an advanced civilization lived on Earth 65 million years ago, what would be left behind? It would depend on what their civilization utilized. Did they lay asphalt roads, or just dirt and stone roads? Were their buildings made of steel and glass, or just wood and mud? How many of them were there - billions, or just a million? If they had computer technology, what would their electric circuits look like after millions of years in the rock cycle? Would they be recognizable to us, or would they end up as just a few trace element enrichments in some rocks?
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Old September 20 2013, 06:01 PM   #18
R. Star
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

If they were able to build a functional space program one assumes they laid out a global infrastructure and explored and colonized the whole planet first. Crawling before you walk as it were. There would be evidence of this, I should think.
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Old September 20 2013, 06:05 PM   #19
Pavonis
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

Why does "functional space program" have to mean "global infrastructure"? And what kind of evidence of any technological civilization would survive intact and identifiable over 65 million years?
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Old September 20 2013, 06:16 PM   #20
R. Star
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

Why? Because frankly it takes these things called resources to get into space. That means global commerce and a means of moving products from one place to another. So cities and roads, mines, quarries, and so forth.

As for evidence of technological civilization? Well what's more durable.. at the very least a continent full of roadways and cities or a fossilized bone? Those survived the time period with no problem.
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Old September 20 2013, 06:46 PM   #21
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

R. Star wrote: View Post
Why? Because frankly it takes these things called resources to get into space. That means global commerce and a means of moving products from one place to another. So cities and roads, mines, quarries, and so forth.

As for evidence of technological civilization? Well what's more durable.. at the very least a continent full of roadways and cities or a fossilized bone? Those survived the time period with no problem.
to be fair, fossils are burried deep underground, protected from weather and other things that can erode them.

nature takes back abandoned cities very quickly. There are abandoned cities currently where nature has almost completely erased them. And that's after less than 100 years. After 65 million years there wouldn't be a shred of evidence left of a city.

there was a great show about this called life after humans or something like that.
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Old September 20 2013, 06:53 PM   #22
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

And you think the roads and evidence of civilization wouldn't be underground? How did those fossils grow to be underground after all? Years and years of sediment burial. Sure the stones will crumble and the wood will rot, but the metalwork, I should think some small percentage of it would come out in tact just as the fossils did.
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Old September 20 2013, 07:08 PM   #23
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

R. Star wrote: View Post
And you think the roads and evidence of civilization wouldn't be underground? How did those fossils grow to be underground after all? Years and years of sediment burial. Sure the stones will crumble and the wood will rot, but the metalwork, I should think some small percentage of it would come out in tact just as the fossils did.
after 65 million years, no I dont think there would be a shred of a city left. Look at a parking lot of an empty store, look how fast weeks break through the black top and concrete. so after 65 million years yeah I think it's entirely possibly tat there wouldn't be anything left
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Old September 20 2013, 07:30 PM   #24
Pavonis
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

R. Star wrote: View Post
And you think the roads and evidence of civilization wouldn't be underground? How did those fossils grow to be underground after all? Years and years of sediment burial. Sure the stones will crumble and the wood will rot, but the metalwork, I should think some small percentage of it would come out in tact just as the fossils did.
Dude, it's not just "underground", it's the pressure and the temperature. Do you think fossils always come out intact? Most of them are deformed in some way. Imagine how all our stuff would look if baked at many hundreds of degrees while being squished by tons of force for millions of years! Of course, you must first have a grasp of the scale of "millions of years"...if you don't have that, I can't help you.

Even if some shred of metal work was recovered, would it be recognizable as worked metal? Or would it just look like ore? Would it be convincing evidence of an advanced civilization? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and a little lump of metal wouldn't be particularly extraordinary....
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Old September 21 2013, 01:17 AM   #25
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

But they found tea cups intact resting beside the Titanic.

I expect no less from the dinos!!!
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Old September 21 2013, 01:54 AM   #26
Pondwater
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

One of my faves from Season 3. Especially when they complained about the smell of humans. Much like (TVH,DS9 and then in the S7 episode "Prophecy") complaint about Klingon odors.
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Old September 21 2013, 02:19 AM   #27
Tiberius
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Why does "functional space program" have to mean "global infrastructure"? And what kind of evidence of any technological civilization would survive intact and identifiable over 65 million years?
In 65 million years from now, do you think there will be fossil humans and yet no sign of our civilisation? No building foundations, mines, large areas of concrete, etc?
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Old September 21 2013, 02:25 AM   #28
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

Surely concrete doesn't last 65 million years?
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Old September 21 2013, 02:27 AM   #29
R. Star
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

I'd bet the some of the rebar in it would stand a good chance of lasting.
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Old September 21 2013, 02:33 AM   #30
Pavonis
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Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

65 million years is an incredibly long time. I don't think any of you are grasping the scale of time here. What would rebar-reinforced concrete look like after deep burial and metamorphosis at high temperature and pressure for that long? Assuming it would be recognizable and easily stumbled upon by archeologists or paleontologists is naive.
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