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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 15 2013, 12:54 AM   #106
Ketrick
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The is no possible death scene for Kirk that people would accept.
The only acceptable way Kirk could have been killed off would have been to go the full blown operatic scale of sacrificing himself in a massive explosion to save the Enterprise and the entire universe. And there's the OMG moment as the surviving crew witness from a distance.

Sort of like "The Doomsday Machine" on a $100 million budget.

And if he always knew he'd die alone, not even we the audience should actually see it up close. That leaves us free to imagine what those last seconds could have been like for him.
And even then the reason why Kirk has to kill himself at all would be a stupid one.

"Autopilot offline", "Transporter offline" and other bullcrapshitfuck.
Not necessarily. A simpler solution would be that he has an incurable disease or is injured to the point he's going to die anyway and decides to die a meaningful death instead of a slower, more painful one.
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Old September 15 2013, 03:49 AM   #107
austen_pierce
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The is no possible death scene for Kirk that people would accept.
Not that Kirk, not in 1994. It was just too soon for fans to accept. Now that Shatner is much older, we could accept Prime Kirk's death as the natural conclusion of a hero's journey.
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Old September 15 2013, 07:35 AM   #108
Peach Wookiee
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Kirk could die in his sleep at an obscenely old age... and in his dreams, surrounded by many sexy ladies.
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Old September 15 2013, 05:29 PM   #109
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Peach Wookiee wrote: View Post
Kirk could die in his sleep at an obscenely old age... and in his dreams, surrounded by many sexy ladies.
But would he be buried with his toupee?

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Old September 15 2013, 05:31 PM   #110
Isolinear
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

ST-TMP: 7.5
A beautiful, majestic film. The viewscreen staring and V'ger beauty-shots could use some trimming. I would like to give it an 8, but there's just not enough happening in the film...
ST2-TWOK: 8
Definitely an exciting movie compared to TMP. Great tense moments. I like the sets of TMP better though.
ST3-TSFS: 7
A good solid adventure story with a satisfying ending.
ST4-TVH: 7
Fun, lightweight adventure. But it's not a movie I rewatch often. Maybe it's the dated 80's stuff that turns me off.
ST5-TFF: 6
The first half of the movie is actually pretty entertaining. Then Sybok reveals his "great mission to the center of the galaxy" and the film falls apart.
ST6-TUC: 9
Yes, better than TWOK. The intrigue, the Klingon Dining scene, the Battles, the perfect farewell. Everything just works.
ST7-GEN: 6.5
Better than TFF, but the plotholes keep it from deserving a 7. Kirk's death was too random. The film feels like a bunch of good TNG episodes were thrown into a blender and something weird came out.

ST8-FC: 8
The best TNG movie. No doubt about it. Timetravel, Borg, Cochrane, all done right. Some out-of-place humor keeps it from a 9.

ST9-INS: 6
This movie was like a very long, boring TNG-episode. There's not much more to say, it's that boring.

ST10-NEM: 5.5
Yes, lower than TFF. As a stand-alone movie it might deserve a 6, but it has an out-of-character Picard, a cookiecutter villain who attacks Earth for no particular reason and sends off the TNG crew with that awfully written Data-death.
ST2009: 7.5
A very good movie and a great re-introduction to our favorite characters. I would give it an 8, but there are a few things I just don't like: plotholes (Spock right there in that ice-cave! Okay....), destroying the Prime-timeline, too much action.

ST-ITD: 7.5
Didn't like the militaristic uniforms and ripping off TWOK, but a very enjoyable film!

Nope, curse of the even Trek Films doesn't hold up!
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Old September 16 2013, 10:48 PM   #111
BillJ
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Isolinear wrote: View Post
...destroying the Prime-timeline...
It's still there. Check out the Pocket Books novels and the computer game Star Trek Online.
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Old September 17 2013, 02:10 AM   #112
Hober Mallow
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

BillJ wrote: View Post
Isolinear wrote: View Post
...destroying the Prime-timeline...
It's still there.
I wish it weren't. Or rather I wish that fans would quit pretending all the various Star Trek series and movies were ever really one cohesive whole and that Star Trek hasn't been rebooted before.
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Old September 17 2013, 03:25 AM   #113
Khan444
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

My understanding of the reboot is that it didn't destroy the Prime-timeline. Rather, it created a separate timeline that runs parallel to the original one. At least, that's how I've hear it explained.
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Old September 17 2013, 03:35 AM   #114
Hober Mallow
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Khan444 wrote: View Post
My understanding of the reboot is that it didn't destroy the Prime-timeline. Rather, it created a separate timeline that runs parallel to the original one. At least, that's how I've hear it explained.
That's why we need a real reboot that ignores all that other crap. No explanation required.

Okay, we don't need one, but I'd like one.
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Old September 17 2013, 10:57 AM   #115
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Isolinear wrote: View Post
Everything just works.
Except the plot.
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Old September 17 2013, 08:42 PM   #116
Isolinear
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Isolinear wrote: View Post
Everything just works.
Except the plot.
You're right. Chang's plot to start a war failed miserably.

It's still there. Check out the Pocket Books novels and the computer game Star Trek Online.
My rule: Everything off-screen doesn't count. It's all fanfic to me. Especially the games.
Maybe a real reboot would have been better. No heated arguments among trekkies and no confusing time-travel for non-trekkies.

My understanding of the reboot is that it didn't destroy the Prime-timeline. Rather, it created a separate timeline that runs parallel to the original one. At least, that's how I've hear it explained.
If that was their intention, a single line for Spock would have done the trick: "I can never return to my timeline". There. But they didn't.
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Old September 17 2013, 11:13 PM   #117
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Isolinear wrote: View Post
My rule: Everything off-screen doesn't count.
As long as it's a good story, what does it matter?
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Old September 20 2013, 12:07 PM   #118
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Isolinear wrote: View Post
Maybe a real reboot would have been better. No heated arguments among trekkies and no confusing time-travel for non-trekkies.
It would have made no difference. Take a look at Smallville or Man of Steel, neither of which are part of the comic book or classic movie continuities and yet fans went apeshit when they dared deviated from them (Lois met Clark BEFORE he worked at the Daily Planet? Heracy! Black trenchcoat/No red undies? Faaaaaaaack! Etc etc)
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Old September 20 2013, 03:47 PM   #119
JarodRussell
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Isolinear wrote: View Post
Maybe a real reboot would have been better. No heated arguments among trekkies and no confusing time-travel for non-trekkies.
It would have made no difference. Take a look at Smallville or Man of Steel, neither of which are part of the comic book or classic movie continuities and yet fans went apeshit when they dared deviated from them (Lois met Clark BEFORE he worked at the Daily Planet? Heracy! Black trenchcoat/No red undies? Faaaaaaaack! Etc etc)
Again, how many are those?


Every time something is done the argument is "naysayers are in the minority, so it's okay", and every time something isn't done the argument is "it's not done because there is a minority of naysayers".
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Old September 20 2013, 11:22 PM   #120
Khan444
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

If they had done a straight reboot, then a lot of people would have complained that they were disrespecting 50 years of canon, including 5 TV shows and 10 movies, by essentially saying that it didn't count anymore. That absolutely would have happened, and that's why they went the route that they did. It truly is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
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