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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 17 2013, 02:55 PM   #16
CommishSleer
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Killjoy here. Lets have Carol Marcus be a scientist who Spock has convinced to work on ways of terraforming New Vulcan instead of enhancing her weapons creation expertise.

Let her be badass while not bedding either Kirk or McCoy
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Old September 17 2013, 03:42 PM   #17
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Malaika wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
Kirk's life and love is the Enterprise, and no woman will replace her. He can't have both.
and yet, as much as I hate the Kirk the womanizer trope I also hate this idea that he's married to the enterprise.
It's a pet peeve of mine.

I know that from my previous comment you can tell I don't really want a Kirk/Carol romance in the next movie but it's just that I don't think they can truly develop another romance only in the last movie when the existing romance of this trilogy (that is there since the first movie) is already very subtle. With S/U at least you have the plot device that they were already a couple when the story started so you don't need to see how they got together (which is honestly the genius here) and it isn't the be all and the end of all of the story.

If this was a television series then I'd be all for a Kirk/romance but since there is - possibly- only one movie left I don't want existing relationships to get sacrificed just for the sake of adding more things to develop when you have hardly the time develop the existing ones. Aside from S/U (whom I find more interesting as a romance than any possible human/human romances I could get with Kirk) take the Kirk/Bones friendship too for example (and my naive hope to see more interactions between the secondary characters)
In short: Quality >>> quantity.
Kirk being effectively married to the Enterprise is something I've struggled with as well. While he jealously defends the Enterprise and her crew he has demonstrated a pattern of willingness to sacrifice his ship to save the crew. Thus, I feel his head is in the right place... He's hugging bodies not bulkheads.
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Old September 17 2013, 04:53 PM   #18
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Killjoy here. Lets have Carol Marcus be a scientist who Spock has convinced to work on ways of terraforming New Vulcan instead of enhancing her weapons creation expertise.

Let her be badass while not bedding either Kirk or McCoy
Works for me.
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Old September 17 2013, 05:11 PM   #19
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Without seeing the film again and remembering it from the one time I saw it at the cinema the romance between Kirk and Marcus was pretty obvious as soon as she appeared on screen.

Mach5 wrote: View Post
I'm all for Kirk/Carol romance, but for the love of God, recast her first. Alice Eve sucked shit.
Before they do that they have to recast NuUhura, Zoe Saldana is awful, just plain awful to watch.
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Old September 19 2013, 12:12 AM   #20
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

I don't have a problem with there being a Kirk/Marcus relationship forming in the next film. There's definitely a mutual attraction there. However, I would probably wait until the fourth film to have them in a really serious relationship. As far as Dr. McCoy goes, he seemed attracted to Carol, but I saw nothing that suggested she was attracted to him.

One good thing about a Kirk/Marcus relationship is that it would (or at least, should) put a definite end to the Spock/Uhura/Kirk love triangle that was set up in the 2009 movie and which has, in my opinion, run its course. While I do think Uhura has more feelings for Kirk now than she did in the first movie and were she and Spock to break up I believe it's not unlikely that she could get with Kirk (if he should be single), I think that would be a bad direction to go and a Kirk/Marcus relationship would be far better and more interesting (and certainly far less soap opera-ish). Personally, I believe that in some timeline Kirk should have a happy ending and I'm rooting for it to be in this alternate reality.
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Old September 19 2013, 12:17 AM   #21
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Ketrick wrote: View Post
Personally, I believe that in some timeline Kirk should have a happy ending and I'm rooting for it to be in this alternate reality.
I don't think it will happen.

I think we're headed square on for the "no beach to walk on" Kirk from TOS. While we never saw it, there was likely a reason why the Kirk we saw rarely allowed women to get close to him.

In this timeline, it will be the death of a pregnant Carol Marcus. In my opinion.
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Old September 19 2013, 01:44 AM   #22
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ketrick wrote: View Post
Personally, I believe that in some timeline Kirk should have a happy ending and I'm rooting for it to be in this alternate reality.
I don't think it will happen.

I think we're headed square on for the "no beach to walk on" Kirk from TOS. While we never saw it, there was likely a reason why the Kirk we saw rarely allowed women to get close to him.

In this timeline, it will be the death of a pregnant Carol Marcus. In my opinion.
You're probably right it won't happen and I agree there was a reason why Prime Kirk rarely allowed women to get close to him. Still, it would be nice for Kirk to finally get a happy ending. I just really don't buy the whole incompatibility of Kirk's Starfleet career or his personality and a long-lasting romantic relationship and/or family life.

Last edited by Ketrick; September 19 2013 at 02:37 AM.
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Old September 19 2013, 01:58 AM   #23
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

My feeling after walking out of the theater (apart from my frustration that people had spoiled most of the film for me already on social media) was that Carol was introduced here and would become involved with Kirk in or by the next film, which would ultimately be about the war with the Klingons and as a means of really ratcheting things up for Kirk, seeing the death of Carol as part of the action of that film. I freely admit that's somewhat of an obvious way to go, and if someone's already posited it (I haven't read this entire thread) I'll just add to that chorus, but that's what I thought. Then again I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if her value as a character wasn't solely tied to her relationship to Kirk. Uhura is already tied to Spock in addition to her function as the communincations officer, but that should be it. Let a female character be a character first.

Apart from McCoy just being a charming guy, I didn't really see much intention there beyond his being a flirt (consistent with the Bones we all know and love.)
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Old September 19 2013, 03:11 AM   #24
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

We already have the Uhura/Spock Romance at the center of the Command Staff, I think adding a Kirk/Carol long term stable relationship would just be too much. I'm going with either The Yoeman Rand unrequited but always hinted at romance or Carol's death (Or possibly just leaving the ship) is the result of the Romance plot. If there is no 4th movie, then yea, maybe they'll end the movie together, but, if they want to go further, I think there will be some reason it doesn't work out.

TOS relied on Kirk's "womanizing" to get them out of many scrapes, not sure they'd "Marry" him off, especially not with someone under his command.
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Old September 19 2013, 03:51 AM   #25
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Gsam wrote: View Post
just off of the top of my head I would say if they took the criticism about INTD lacking an original story line and have decided to go original for the next movie then I don't see how Kirk/Marcus is anything but same old, same old.
Yeah, that's how I feel about it. I like the addition of Carol Marcus to the cast to add a little more diversity to the crew, but the whole point of a reboot is to do things differently. I don't want the two of them together.
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Old September 19 2013, 03:57 AM   #26
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Part of me agrees that Carol will probably get offed when she gets preggers. If only because Kirk needs a little bit more armor and experience with loss before he's quite the man he should be.
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Old September 19 2013, 05:57 AM   #27
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Lots of good food for thought here.

I can totally see the Edith Keeler scenario playing out with Carol, and while that would work for me if well done, I happen to like her character, and I'd like to see her developed, rather than killed off.

As for a baby David...it is a huge personal pet peeve of mine when films/shows kill off the hero's pregnant wife/girlfriend. I really, really hate that. And at this point it seems to me Kirk has lost enough. I could take or leave there ever being a child, but I would be cool with the romance, if it was well done, developed with a slow burn, realistically and not just portrayed as a lust fest culminating with a child.

Then again, I suppose the child scenario could be an interesting angle too, but it would have to be perfectly written and executed to work for me this early on. A film or two down the road, if Kirk and Marcus were together long-term, I could see that working better.
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Old September 19 2013, 06:20 AM   #28
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ketrick wrote: View Post
Personally, I believe that in some timeline Kirk should have a happy ending and I'm rooting for it to be in this alternate reality.
I don't think it will happen.

I think we're headed square on for the "no beach to walk on" Kirk from TOS. While we never saw it, there was likely a reason why the Kirk we saw rarely allowed women to get close to him.

In this timeline, it will be the death of a pregnant Carol Marcus. In my opinion.
God help me, as much as is it feels like fridging Carol--and I thought Alice Eve did wonderful with the part--I agree with this.

It'd be an important moment for Kirk: Learning that he can't always cheat death, that there are times you can't win, or someone is going to be able to fix it.

Really want to change it up--and they'll never do it: Carol dies, the baby survives, and Kirk leaves the service to raise his son. Spock or Sulu get command of the Enterprise at the end.
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Old September 19 2013, 10:27 AM   #29
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Didn't JJ Abrams say that no one will make Kirk marry and settle down? He made it sound like they have no plans for a stable romantic plot for him, Admittedly it was an interview for playboy but he seemed confident Kirk the womanizer is something they don't want to get rid of (I might disagree with him but hey..) but then never trust JJ too much...

as for a pregnant Carol.. IDK this is another reality
The writers always say that they want to harmonize with canon and have some major differences. Who knows, if they follow the pattern they sort of have created between K/S then Spock might be the one having a kid in this reality
If you notice they sort of switched their roles. S/U was a nod to the Kirk/Uhura kiss that they took to another level and made an actual pair (in context in the 60s the K/U kiss alone was progressive even if forced. Nowadays S/U is progressive and "iconic" precisely because it's an actual interracial pair with a character like Spock. A dynamic like the K/U one from tos wouldn't be iconic or progressive today - it would actually be pretty insulting)
In the other reality Pike was supposed to be Spock's mentor while in this reality they made him more Kirk's mentor and father surrogate than Spock's.

but anyway maybe we're giving too much credit to them
Even if they have a Kirk/Carol romance it doesn't have to be a big deal or for the sake of killing her to give Kirk manpain.
They might even toy with some flirting and then in the very end of the trilogy imply that they will get together. In short a will they won't they sort of dynamic.

I still think though that her character (borrowing spock words) is completely redundant, if her purpose really is to serve as Kirk's love interest or female friend. I already have S/U and the Kirk/Uhura friendship plus the Kirk/Spock, Kirk/Bones and Kirk/Scotty friendships. All the spots are filled.
The only good addiction Carol provides is being another more prominent female character beside Uhura but other than that she will inevitably take screentime that could have been otherwise used for the existing secondary characters that are already undeveloped and underutilized.
But then people seem to think that only Uhura getting more screentime means taking it away from Bones&Co.. so..

Ketrick wrote: View Post

One good thing about a Kirk/Marcus relationship is that it would (or at least, should) put a definite end to the Spock/Uhura/Kirk love triangle that was set up in the 2009 movie and which has, in my opinion, run its course. While I do think Uhura has more feelings for Kirk now than she did in the first movie and were she and Spock to break up I believe it's not unlikely that she could get with Kirk (if he should be single), I think that would be a bad direction to go and a Kirk/Marcus relationship would be far better and more interesting (and certainly far less soap opera-ish). Personally, I believe that in some timeline Kirk should have a happy ending and I'm rooting for it to be in this alternate reality.
I never saw a triangle between kirk/spock/uhura
Kirk liked her in the first movie but it wasn't serious and definitely as soon as he saw that she was with Spock he always respected it.
I might even say that he actually supports their relationship, he's definitely friend of both (also implied in the comics)
As for Uhura, yes she likes him more now and they are friends but this doesn't mean she's interested about him romantically.

Some people think that they're simply playing the Harry Potter formula: two male characters + a female one. Great friendship between them all, one romantic subplot between the friends of the hero.
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Last edited by Malaika; September 19 2013 at 03:32 PM.
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Old September 19 2013, 03:18 PM   #30
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Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

I imagine the Spock/Uhura romance in JJTrek is far more a nod to hints in early TOS of a romance between Spock and Uhura, then it is a nod to the forced kiss in Plato's Step-Children
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