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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 19 2013, 03:48 AM   #541
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Re: Orci strikes back

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post

We can't be expected to footnote every criticism with caveats and acknowledgements of previous movie/series citations.
Why not?
Because you shouldn't have to defend your argument as if you were writing a thesis just to discuss a movie. It turns a simple, fun conversation into a legal debate.

I disliked The Enterprise and Vengeance duking it out alone while the rest of StarFleet sat back and watched. As proof of the validity of my criticism, allow me to submit for your approval three pieces of evidence -- Star Trek: Nemesis, Star Trek: Generations, and Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. More evidence can be submitted if further proof is requested.
How long you been in this fandom? Or any fandom? People are going to call people on hypocrisy. In short: Bring the "A" game. Got an opinion? Great. Start citing how "X" is worse that "Y" cause "Y" is a superior product, you better be willing to back it up and then brace to get it torn down and torched.

A lot of the "issues" people bitch about with the Abrams films are standard fare in Trek, but some people shift the goal posts in order to make it look like the Abrams films are somehow worse when they do it than all the other times when it's been done in the franchise.

The hardest critics on Trek are the people that love it but can still see the warts.
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Old September 19 2013, 03:50 AM   #542
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Re: Orci strikes back

Kelthaz wrote: View Post

I disliked The Enterprise and Vengeance duking it out alone while the rest of StarFleet sat back and watched. As proof of the validity of my criticism, allow me to submit for your approval three pieces of evidence -- Star Trek: Nemesis, Star Trek: Generations, and Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. More evidence can be submitted if further proof is requested.
You list three movies but list nothing of why you actually disliked it or what the three movies you list prove.

I like the point made that Spock simply didn't know who he could trust on Earth.
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Old September 19 2013, 04:04 AM   #543
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Re: Orci strikes back

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
How long you been in this fandom? Or any fandom? People are going to call people on hypocrisy. In short: Bring the "A" game. Got an opinion? Great. Start citing how "X" is worse that "Y" cause "Y" is a superior product, you better be willing to back it up and then brace to get it torn down and torched.
If someone is posting their opinion on some important political issue like universal health care or gay marriage I would agree with you. I do not agree with you when it comes to frivolous things such as films. I was talking to a Star Trek fan at work a few weeks ago and he mentioned that Deep Space Nine was the worst Star Trek series without backing up his opinion. Should I have aggressively interrogated him and forced him to compare everything he didn't like to the other series? Should I then have "torn down and torched" his argument if his responses didn't satisfy me? Of course not, so why should we behave any differently on these forums?
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Old September 19 2013, 04:07 AM   #544
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Re: Orci strikes back

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Should I have aggressively interrogated him and forced him to compare everything he didn't like to the other series? Should I then have "torn down and torched" his argument if his responses didn't satisfy me? Of course not, so why should we behave any differently on these forums?
No.

But if someone is unable to share details on why they think the way they think, I usually disregard the opinion entirely.
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Old September 19 2013, 04:12 AM   #545
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Re: Orci strikes back

Casual conversation is one thing. The boards are discussion based. Citing examples and whatnot certainly helps whatever position you hold. Just sayin'...
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Old September 19 2013, 04:12 AM   #546
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Re: Orci strikes back

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
How long you been in this fandom? Or any fandom? People are going to call people on hypocrisy. In short: Bring the "A" game. Got an opinion? Great. Start citing how "X" is worse that "Y" cause "Y" is a superior product, you better be willing to back it up and then brace to get it torn down and torched.
If someone is posting their opinion on some important political issue like universal health care or gay marriage I would agree with you. I do not agree with you when it comes to frivolous things such as films. I was talking to a Star Trek fan at work a few weeks ago and he mentioned that Deep Space Nine was the worst Star Trek series without backing up his opinion. Should I have aggressively interrogated him and forced him to compare everything he didn't like to the other series? Should I then have "torn down and torched" his argument if his responses didn't satisfy me? Of course not, so why should we behave any differently on these forums?
Public forums, you don't get to say that everyone has to play the game your way. If you don't want to back up your opinion one can force you. However, people have the equal right to tear into it, and you can't force them to not to do so. When you slam something for something the rest of the franchise has done for decades, people are going to call BS and they're going to counter it and push for you to back your opinion.

You set the level of engagement, the same as the rest of us do. If you don't like defending your opinion, then don't.
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Old September 19 2013, 04:24 AM   #547
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Re: Orci strikes back

I loved several parts of Star Trek Into Darkness very much. But I refuse to be specific about why I loved them or what they were.
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Old September 19 2013, 04:26 AM   #548
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Re: Orci strikes back

And...?
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Old September 19 2013, 04:27 AM   #549
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Re: Orci strikes back

Tosk wrote: View Post
I loved several parts of Star Trek Into Darkness very much. But I refuse to be specific about why I loved them or what they were.
Strong building blocks for a great discussion!
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Old September 19 2013, 04:52 AM   #550
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Re: Orci strikes back

Yep, this is a discussion board. If you post something, be it negative or positive, it will be discussed. Participation in that discussion is up to you.
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Old September 19 2013, 04:56 AM   #551
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Re: Orci strikes back

If Gene were alive, he would mandate that in the future humanity no longer needs 'discussions'. It would be as unnecessary as gold, and the Columbia House Record and Tape Club.
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Old September 19 2013, 05:20 AM   #552
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Re: Orci strikes back

Also, everyone would be naked.
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Old September 19 2013, 05:22 AM   #553
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Re: Orci strikes back

Well, that goes without saying.

Although I do miss being able to get a hundred albums for a nickel...
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Old September 19 2013, 06:15 AM   #554
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Re: Orci strikes back

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
If Orci didn't want to deal with over-critical fans, many of whom actively worked on keeping the franchise alive for decades, judging his work, maybe he should work on reviving a different franchise. Maybe the Transformers? Spiderman?
That doesn't mean he has to put up with &^% from these fans (or anybody).
Orci can respond, of course. However, he ought not be surprised or offended by criticism from dedicated fandom. He would need to anticipate the same hesitation and suspicion if he were reimagining Shakespeare or Wagner, two other areas in which there is a built in and very opinionated audience. Added to that is the lore of fan involvement in making Trek a franchise with a long life. Saying that he is approaching things de novo--which is highly debateable--won't win his critics over.
Orci should have to put up with some criticism after all he can dish it out. But he doesn't have to put up with verbal abuse or personal attacks if thats what was happening.
he should be as protected from personal attacks as we are here on this or any other well moderated board.

A celebrity in my country nearly took desperate measures when she was constantly attacked on her (I think) twitter account. People were telling her to kill herself and to die when she hadn't done anything criminally or morally wrong. Just (perhaps foolishly) revealed too much of her inner self.

And now Orci doesn't have to put up with it as he is no longer interacting with the fans. Who suffers now - not him. The people who were enjoying the tweets and posts.
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Old September 19 2013, 11:36 AM   #555
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Re: Orci strikes back

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Um... okay, so where do I fit in? I don't care for big dumb Hollywood action flix, but I'm just fine with forgetting about the Trek spinoiffs (I'm quite happy to forget VOY and ENT).
Conscientious objector?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Decades of continuity from Star Trek spinoffs, derivative series created by other people. It should be thrown out.
Why? Range, variety and depth are not necessarily negative things for a fictional universe.
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