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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 18 2013, 09:11 PM   #61
M'Sharak
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Yanks wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Spock didn't think Kirk would lie on his report, but as he said in Pike's office, he was very grateful Kirk saved his life.

Well sure... that does not constitute being "besties".

If you were Joe shit the rag man, wouldn't you be greatful?
Ha, new phrase for the day - had to look that one up.
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Old September 18 2013, 09:49 PM   #62
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Ovation wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post

Heresy is right

The only thing "cheesy" about Spock's death scene, was "what the hell was he doing in that thing?" "What the hell was he fixing in there?"
Count me among the heretical. I saw TWOK the week it opened (I've been watching TOS since 1973 at the age of six). While I didn't find Spock's death scene overly "cheesy", I found it less compelling than what I watched in the cinema this past summer (and will soon watch again). The quality of acting from Pine/Quinto sold the scene more effectively than did Shatner/Nimoy (and I enjoy the work of each).

As for the scream--it had a far more compelling contextual justification than Kirk's scream in TWOK. The character arc building over two films for Spock made the moment far more believable than Kirk's motives for his scream. Certainly one is free to disagree, but let's not pretend that the entire scene is one that should be "obviously bad" to all viewers. And in two packed screenings, I did not hear a single sound that remotely hinted at laughter or any other derogatory thought. More than one person was dabbing at their eyes, though. So anecdotal evidence is rendered moot by other anecdotal evidence (as is usually the case).
Save a spot on the pyre for me too. I felt hurt more when the Enterprise was destroyed than when Spock died. Then again, even at as a kid watching it, I knew they'd bring him back. Doesn't make what the character did any less bold, just that you knew they'd never kill off Kirk, Spock, or McCoy and let them stay dead.

Never liked Kirk's "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaan!" Mainly cause 3 minutes later we find out that there was nothing to worry about cause he knew Spock was waiting with the Enterprise. I've no problem with Quinto's yell being there, just that it felt like he was restraining himself a little when he should have been raging it.
TOTALLY agree about Kirk yelling "Khan" for the reasons you've stated.

I was torn between the two. The connie crashing and Kirk saying, "Bones, what have I done" still gets me to this day.
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Old September 18 2013, 09:51 PM   #63
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Spock didn't think Kirk would lie on his report, but as he said in Pike's office, he was very grateful Kirk saved his life.

Well sure... that does not constitute being "besties".

If you were Joe shit the rag man, wouldn't you be greatful?
Ha, new phrase for the day - had to look that one up.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:01 PM   #64
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Ovation wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post

[HERESY ALERT!] Very astute observation by your wife. Frankly, I thought Spock's death scene in TWOK was cheesy, too. It even had moments of humor. I remember muffled chuckles in the theater three times during the scene (and that included me): 1. When Spock gets up and then thinks enough to straighten his tunic. 2. When he walks into the wall and bounces off because he apparently can't see well. 3. When he seems concerned enough to ask Kirk what he thought of his solution to the no-win scenario. [/HERESY ALERT!]

At least to me, in comparison, Kirk's death scene was far more gut-wrenching with the tight shots, sad music, and real fear expressed by Kirk and real emotion expressed by Spock. The ONLY thing it had in common with TWOK was it was a similar situation done much better than the first time. (Now, I'll just go put on a hard hat to withstand all the rocks and garbage that will be thrown at me. Imagine, an original Trek fan going back to TOS disliking Spock's death scene. )
Heresy is right

The only thing "cheesy" about Spock's death scene, was "what the hell was he doing in that thing?" "What the hell was he fixing in there?"
Count me among the heretical. I saw TWOK the week it opened (I've been watching TOS since 1973 at the age of six). While I didn't find Spock's death scene overly "cheesy", I found it less compelling than what I watched in the cinema this past summer (and will soon watch again). The quality of acting from Pine/Quinto sold the scene more effectively than did Shatner/Nimoy (and I enjoy the work of each).

As for the scream--it had a far more compelling contextual justification than Kirk's scream in TWOK. The character arc building over two films for Spock made the moment far more believable than Kirk's motives for his scream. Certainly one is free to disagree, but let's not pretend that the entire scene is one that should be "obviously bad" to all viewers. And in two packed screenings, I did not hear a single sound that remotely hinted at laughter or any other derogatory thought. More than one person was dabbing at their eyes, though. So anecdotal evidence is rendered moot by other anecdotal evidence (as is usually the case).
As I've already stated, Kirk's "Khan" was useless and over dramatic.

I'm not knocking Chris Pines acting performance BTW. He nailed it even better in STID than he did in ST09. Outstanding job, specifically in the death scene. ... and I can accept his side of that scene. With his mind meld with Spockprime it all fits. It's Spock's side that makes no sense and hadn't been earned in the 2 movies.

Oh, and I wasn't "looking" for laughing folks, it just caught my attention.

Folks are making it sound like I went into the theater with some agenda or something.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:05 PM   #65
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Yanks, free advice: Use the multiquote
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Old September 18 2013, 10:22 PM   #66
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

I complained loudly about this when I saw the movie the first four times and that Spock would attempt to contact New Vulcan instead of Earth. The fifth-time I was watching and complaining, my wife looked at me and said, "there is probably no one on Earth that he feels he can trust".

And you know what? She was fucking right. Just because you think something is bad, doesn't mean it actually is bad.
Just because you think she was fucking right doesn't mean she is either.

It's a cop-out for nuSpock. Everytime he gets in a pickle he can just call himself.

And what made it worse was - what information did nuSpock obtain that helped him at all? What information obtained did he use to capture/stop/understand Khan?

Nothing, not one useful bit of information.

Remove the scene, it doesn't change anything with the story.

Why does nuSpock need to call anyone? Does he need to hear Spockprime tell him Khan was a bad guy? That he was pissed? That he killed Pike?

Completely useless cameo.
Spock couldn't contact Earth. Who would he call - Starfleet Command? Would they believe him or their CIC? If he contact them then they'd probably send out a force against the Enterprise to save Admiral Marcus.

Why shouldn't nuSpock contact PrimeSpock? nuSpocks being forced inro situations that he wouldn't be in this early in life if it wasn't for PrimeSpock's intrusion/creation of this nuUniverse. Perhaps nuSpock needed PrimeSpock's reasurrance that his instincts about Khan were right. Perhaps nuSpock needs PrimeSpock's advise for his 'emotional security'. He didn't have Kirk to sound out and everyone else aboard was less experienced. I don't think nuSpock wants to go around killing people unless its absolutely necessary.
This:


Start 3 minutes in.
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We have to learn again that science without contact with experiments is an enterprise which is likely to go completely astray into imaginary conjecture.”
- Evolution of the Solar System, NASA 1976, H. Alfvén & G, Arrhenius, p. 257.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:23 PM   #67
Yanks
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Yanks, free advice: Use the multiquote
I've tried clicking it. Just haven't figured out how the damn thing works.

Guidance please?
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We have to learn again that science without contact with experiments is an enterprise which is likely to go completely astray into imaginary conjecture.”
- Evolution of the Solar System, NASA 1976, H. Alfvén & G, Arrhenius, p. 257.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:24 PM   #68
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Yanks wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Yanks, free advice: Use the multiquote
I've tried clicking it. Just haven't figured out how the damn thing works.

Guidance please?
Click multi quote for each post added, then Quote on the last post you add.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:58 PM   #69
Yanks
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Yanks, free advice: Use the multiquote
I've tried clicking it. Just haven't figured out how the damn thing works.

Guidance please?
Click multi quote for each post added, then Quote on the last post you add.
Sorry bud, just not getting it. I click "multi quote" and nothing happens.
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We have to learn again that science without contact with experiments is an enterprise which is likely to go completely astray into imaginary conjecture.”
- Evolution of the Solar System, NASA 1976, H. Alfvén & G, Arrhenius, p. 257.
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Old September 18 2013, 11:06 PM   #70
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Yanks wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post

I've tried clicking it. Just haven't figured out how the damn thing works.

Guidance please?
Click multi quote for each post added, then Quote on the last post you add.
Sorry bud, just not getting it. I click "multi quote" and nothing happens.
Multiquote should turn yellow when you click it, then when you click Quote on the last post you want it'll up the reply window with each post clicked stacked in one reply window.

Better to show it, I did a quick desktop record on how to use multiquote.
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Last edited by SeerSGB; September 18 2013 at 11:18 PM.
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Old September 18 2013, 11:34 PM   #71
Yanks
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Yanks, free advice: Use the multiquote
I've tried clicking it. Just haven't figured out how the damn thing works.

Guidance please?
Click multi quote for each post added, then Quote on the last post you add.
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post

Click multi quote for each post added, then Quote on the last post you add.
Sorry bud, just not getting it. I click "multi quote" and nothing happens.
Multiquote should turn yellow when you click it, then when you click Quote on the last post you want it'll up the reply window with each post clicked stacked in one reply window.

Better to show it, I did a quick desktop record on how to use multiquote.
Man, you're the bomb!!

Got it, thanks!!

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- Evolution of the Solar System, NASA 1976, H. Alfvén & G, Arrhenius, p. 257.
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Old September 19 2013, 12:43 AM   #72
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

I laughed when Spock died in TWOK because the scene was badly directed.
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Old September 19 2013, 01:41 AM   #73
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Yanks wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post

Just because you think she was fucking right doesn't mean she is either.

It's a cop-out for nuSpock. Everytime he gets in a pickle he can just call himself.

And what made it worse was - what information did nuSpock obtain that helped him at all? What information obtained did he use to capture/stop/understand Khan?

Nothing, not one useful bit of information.

Remove the scene, it doesn't change anything with the story.

Why does nuSpock need to call anyone? Does he need to hear Spockprime tell him Khan was a bad guy? That he was pissed? That he killed Pike?

Completely useless cameo.
Spock couldn't contact Earth. Who would he call - Starfleet Command? Would they believe him or their CIC? If he contact them then they'd probably send out a force against the Enterprise to save Admiral Marcus.

Why shouldn't nuSpock contact PrimeSpock? nuSpocks being forced inro situations that he wouldn't be in this early in life if it wasn't for PrimeSpock's intrusion/creation of this nuUniverse. Perhaps nuSpock needed PrimeSpock's reasurrance that his instincts about Khan were right. Perhaps nuSpock needs PrimeSpock's advise for his 'emotional security'. He didn't have Kirk to sound out and everyone else aboard was less experienced. I don't think nuSpock wants to go around killing people unless its absolutely necessary.
This:


Start 3 minutes in.
I surprising myself (as I take Star Trek too seriously) found that quite funny. Just as an aside to this thread I think PrimeSpock should go around giving hints here and there to Starfleet to stop the Doomsday Machine, the giant space Ameoba, Vger, Romulus' Supernova, the whale Probe etc. He could save billions of lives. Not everything they did of course. Just the major things.

I agree that it affects our hero's lives by solving all their problems. Its a big universe with many other problems to deal with. They can solve those.
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Old September 19 2013, 03:01 AM   #74
Yanks
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I surprising myself (as I take Star Trek too seriously) found that quite funny. Just as an aside to this thread I think PrimeSpock should go around giving hints here and there to Starfleet to stop the Doomsday Machine, the giant space Ameoba, Vger, Romulus' Supernova, the whale Probe etc. He could save billions of lives. Not everything they did of course. Just the major things.

I agree that it affects our hero's lives by solving all their problems. Its a big universe with many other problems to deal with. They can solve those.
The worst part is that "Spock phone home" moment meant absolutely nothing. You can remove it and it changes nothing about the rest of the movie.
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Old September 19 2013, 03:05 AM   #75
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Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Yanks wrote: View Post
You can remove it and it changes nothing about the rest of the movie.
No.
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