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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 18 2013, 09:50 AM   #31
J. Allen
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Ln X wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
That's cool. I don't begrudge anyone for liking it. (and I don't intend on shooting anyone )

To me, when you look at how easy it would have been to end it differently, it seemed like a slap in the face.
I get what you're saying. I've seen films where the story has been built, the characters have been fleshed out, and I'm just waiting for the big payoff and... *fizzle*. It happens. I don't feel that way about STiD, but I can understand why you might.
This!

The payoff! STID has, for me anyway, the poorest payoff out of all of the ST movies I've seen.
If you guys don't mind saying, what about the ending fizzled for you?
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Old September 18 2013, 09:59 AM   #32
Ln X
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

I get what you're saying. I've seen films where the story has been built, the characters have been fleshed out, and I'm just waiting for the big payoff and... *fizzle*. It happens. I don't feel that way about STiD, but I can understand why you might.
This!

The payoff! STID has, for me anyway, the poorest payoff out of all of the ST movies I've seen.
If you guys don't mind saying, what about the ending fizzled for you?
Not wanting to repeat myself but my gripe with the ending and why it fizzled are in this particular post of this thread.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...3&postcount=28
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Old September 18 2013, 10:46 AM   #33
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Ln X wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post

This!

The payoff! STID has, for me anyway, the poorest payoff out of all of the ST movies I've seen.
If you guys don't mind saying, what about the ending fizzled for you?
Not wanting to repeat myself but my gripe with the ending and why it fizzled are in this particular post of this thread.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...3&postcount=28
That seems fair. You're looking more at plot choices. That you haven't decided to condemn the writers to hellfire indicates you're rather reasonable about the whole thing.
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Old September 18 2013, 11:44 AM   #34
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Ln X wrote: View Post
STID would have been a home run for me if Kirk stayed dead, Spock's external pain was simply confined to his eyes, Khan escaped and Spock gave that speech. Four little things which could have been done in the last fifteen minutes or so. They fumbled the ending and robbed it of its meaning and power, which sadly cast a shadow on the rest of the film.
This 100%

I think the TWOK stuff is often misconstrued as a mere rip-off and whilst it's hard to argue against certain moments as superficial 'homage' I think there is enough going on beneath the surface that helps the movie forge its own identity. For instance, Kirk and Spock and the glass - easy to dimiss as having no 'weight' due to the characters only meeting two minutes ago but it could be argued that Spock's anguish is that of someone who has had a potential true friendship taken away from him. I can't recall the exact line but Quinto sold this moment for me during the death scene but then, like you, I was instantly transported out of the scene and reminded that I was watching a daft action movie with the 'Khaaaaan' line and Spock's ultimate hulking out and fisticuff battle on the set of the Total Recall remake.
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Old September 18 2013, 01:04 PM   #35
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

If you guys don't mind saying, what about the ending fizzled for you?
Not wanting to repeat myself but my gripe with the ending and why it fizzled are in this particular post of this thread.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...3&postcount=28
That seems fair. You're looking more at plot choices. That you haven't decided to condemn the writers to hellfire indicates you're rather reasonable about the whole thing.
I'll give the writers the benefit of the doubt as they made Star Trek 09 work. Maybe they tried too hard with STID, maybe they threw to much time at the script or maybe they were having an off day when they came up with the premise, yet could not radically alter it because perhaps a deadline was coming. I dunno.

That's why I'm holding out hope that STID's ending was a fluke and the third alternative TOS film is a step in the right direction. I'm not even asking for anything special but just cut out the sloppy bits and throw in a sprinkle more of McCoy. However I do fear a trend developing.

Consider the Spock/Uhura romance in ST 09, to this day I still don't know what Spock was thinking and I hope it was not a case of 'my planet's destroyed, let's get it on with one of my former cadets I trained'. It's about the only problem I had with ST 09 and the only thing I thought was silly.

I'm going to ignore STID's plotholes (some more sillyness there but I won't divulge) and Carol Marcus' booty and say STID's ending descended into sillyness to. Kirk's death followed by his resurrection several hours later, Spock screaming Khan and sounding like a toddler having a tantrum because his crayons are broken, and to top it off Spock and Khan fighting on some hover-vehicle (ala Star Wars Revenge of the Sith style).

It was funny in a way but giving its the ending I should not be giggling through most of it. But I definitely think STID had a greater silly factor than ST 09 did. So I hope the third film doesn't crank up the factor some more, and that is the trend I hope is broken.
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Old September 18 2013, 03:17 PM   #36
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

SeerSGB wrote: View Post

I'm embarrassed for our fandom, cause the jerks are becoming our public face. The don't have to like the movie, but their actions are giving the fandom a bad rep. The members of any of the production teams shouldn't be subject to abuse by "so called fans" for simply doing their jobs. Basically, from a PR standpoint, we're angling right back around to the stereotype to the basement dwelling virgins with no life.
This.
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Old September 18 2013, 03:22 PM   #37
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

I've posted a lot of nitpicks and questions up for debate. I also LOVED the movie.
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Old September 18 2013, 03:53 PM   #38
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

My experience seeing ID was similar to my experience seeing INSURRECTION. I just kept wondering when I was supposed to care about what was happening to the characters. And just as with INSURRECTION, I never did.
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Old September 18 2013, 05:59 PM   #39
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Ln X wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
That's cool. I don't begrudge anyone for liking it. (and I don't intend on shooting anyone )

To me, when you look at how easy it would have been to end it differently, it seemed like a slap in the face.
I get what you're saying. I've seen films where the story has been built, the characters have been fleshed out, and I'm just waiting for the big payoff and... *fizzle*. It happens. I don't feel that way about STiD, but I can understand why you might.
This!

The payoff! STID has, for me anyway, the poorest payoff out of all of the ST movies I've seen.
Yeah, when I watched the "death scene" I kinda just squinted and turned my head thinking "please just get past this crap"

The "pay-off" in STID was what? .... Kirk being brought back to life and Kirk force-feeding a speech about exploration? (which felt like the ending of VOY: Endgame BTW...)

Not much there, eh?
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Old September 18 2013, 06:14 PM   #40
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Ln X wrote: View Post
STID would have been a home run for me if Kirk stayed dead, Spock's external pain was simply confined to his eyes, Khan escaped and Spock gave that speech. Four little things which could have been done in the last fifteen minutes or so. They fumbled the ending and robbed it of its meaning and power, which sadly cast a shadow on the rest of the film.
I'm not sure I'm here.

I can see what your saying. If you going to do it, then go all the way! (I thinking that's what you are implying)

I don't want Kirk dead, and most certainly don't want another rehash of an old movie.

I want them all alive and some original writing!!

Enterprising Young Men!!!! ... n-$hit...
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Old September 18 2013, 06:32 PM   #41
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Ln X wrote: View Post


Consider the Spock/Uhura romance in ST 09, to this day I still don't know what Spock was thinking and I hope it was not a case of 'my planet's destroyed, let's get it on with one of my former cadets I trained'. It's about the only problem I had with ST 09 and the only thing I thought was silly.
You could know it if you payed attention to the scenes and if that alone wasn't enough you had the script, the novelization and some of the comics and you could read what the writers said.
You'd understand then that these two characters were in fact a couple way before his planet got destroyed and this is the very reason why their interactions in the turbolift and later on the transport pad, make sense. He could act like that only with someone who was his girlfriend.

Besides, if one can buy that two people that despised each other can suddenly become besta friendas forevar only because dude's future self from another reality played matchmaker and they can convincingly play a ala TWOK scene with a crying, screaming and homicidal Spock acting like that for the death of someone he hardly considered more than a co-worker for the majority of the last movies (when he didn't even cry when his mother died and his home planet got sucked in a black hole and he felt his people dying)
.... then him having a girlfriend who happens to be someone that he probably knows since years shouldn't be that much of a shock or considered that impossible and/or OOC.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:57 PM   #42
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Malaika wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post


Consider the Spock/Uhura romance in ST 09, to this day I still don't know what Spock was thinking and I hope it was not a case of 'my planet's destroyed, let's get it on with one of my former cadets I trained'. It's about the only problem I had with ST 09 and the only thing I thought was silly.
You could know it if you payed attention to the scenes and if that alone wasn't enough you had the script, the novelization and some of the comics and you could read what the writers said.
You'd understand then that these two characters were in fact a couple way before his planet got destroyed and this is the very reason why their interactions in the turbolift and later on the transport pad, make sense. He could act like that only with someone who was his girlfriend.

Besides, if one can buy that two people that despised each other can suddenly become besta friendas forevar only because dude's future self from another reality played matchmaker and they can convincingly play a ala TWOK scene with a crying, screaming and homicidal Spock acting like that for the death of someone he hardly considered more than a co-worker for the majority of the last movies (when he didn't even cry when his mother died and his home planet got sucked in a black hole and he felt his people dying)
.... then him having a girlfriend who happens to be someone that he probably knows since years shouldn't be that much of a shock or considered that impossible and/or OOC.
I do recall Uhura talking to Spock about her 'oral' sensitivity. I just hope she was talking about her linguistic skills and not her BJ skills! Maybe Spock just wanted to explore humanity and utilise that burning Vulcan desire inside of him...
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Old September 18 2013, 11:12 PM   #43
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Ln X wrote: View Post
Malaika wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
...
...
I do recall Uhura talking to Spock about her 'oral' sensitivity. I just hope she was talking about her linguistic skills and not her BJ skills! Maybe Spock just wanted to explore humanity and utilise that burning Vulcan desire inside of him...
Can we not do the "oral" crack any more?



Seriously, it wasn't that funny before it got beaten to death.
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Old September 18 2013, 11:28 PM   #44
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

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Old September 19 2013, 02:25 AM   #45
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Re: Kurtzman Defends Star Trek Into Darkness

Yanks wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
STID would have been a home run for me if Kirk stayed dead, Spock's external pain was simply confined to his eyes, Khan escaped and Spock gave that speech. Four little things which could have been done in the last fifteen minutes or so. They fumbled the ending and robbed it of its meaning and power, which sadly cast a shadow on the rest of the film.
I'm not sure I'm here.

I can see what your saying. If you going to do it, then go all the way! (I thinking that's what you are implying)

I don't want Kirk dead, and most certainly don't want another rehash of an old movie.

I want them all alive and some original writing!!

Enterprising Young Men!!!! ... n-$hit...
I too cringed through the entire Kirk death sequence. For me the way to make this both an homage and freshly EPIC would have been for them to trick Khan into 'going in there' and have that be the END of him. No magic blood, no wondering if he'll be back. Pay tribute, do something DIFFERENT, and move on...
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