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Old September 18 2013, 04:14 AM   #16
Morpheus 02
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Austin 3:16 wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.
But in Star Trek 2009 the characters themselves said that Nero's interference changed the timeline.
I think there was a 3rd ship that was thrown farther in time...such that it interfered with the genetics of Khan in order to make him a white guy.
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Old September 18 2013, 04:37 AM   #17
Avro Arrow
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Well, it's the Abramsverse, so I'm guessing the Vengeance is more powerful than the Enterprise-E and the Enterprise-D duct-taped together.

It's like they looked at some of those fanboy uberships online and said, "Eh, we can top that..."
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Old September 18 2013, 06:45 AM   #18
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Considering that we have no way of knowing how to compare the phaser and warp technologies of the Abramsverse and the Prime Timeline, I don't think there's any reasonable way to answer the question of whether the U.S.S. Vengeance could defeat the Enterprise-E.
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Old September 18 2013, 07:03 AM   #19
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

I suspect the ships in the Abramsverse have more cowbell...

and daddy issues...

and lens flare.
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Old September 18 2013, 09:26 AM   #20
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

The Vengeance would definitely win in a cargo bay fight. Even if you stacked stuff up in the Enterprise-E's bottomless pit on deck 29 you'd never come close.
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Old September 18 2013, 09:41 AM   #21
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Morpheus 02 wrote:
I think there was a 3rd ship that was thrown farther in time...such that it interfered with the genetics of Khan in order to make him a white guy.
Ricardo Montelban was white hispanic, and he looked it in Wrath of Khan.

Marla was wrong. He wasn't an Indian Sikh, he just had a tan - which quickly wore off on Ceti Alpha V in one life, and in the Section 31 base under London in another
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Old September 18 2013, 12:12 PM   #22
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
white hispanic
Ricardo Montelban was of Mexican descent, and not "white Hispanic."

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Old September 18 2013, 12:18 PM   #23
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

I guess if Orci, Abrams et al were intent on super-sizing everything, Khan should have been "The Most Interesting Man in the World"^100. Cumberbatch is charming, but ...
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Old September 18 2013, 02:33 PM   #24
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.
The anomaly that brought the Narada back released anti-time particles, retroactively applying the relaunch to the timeline. Everything is bigger since 2009 (even my belly)!
Which conviniently stopped in 2154 as the entire Enterprise series still exists as we saw it onscreen, backed up by the numerous references throughout both reboot films, including the NX-01, planet Menk, Admiral Archer, Porthos etc still existing.
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Old September 18 2013, 03:37 PM   #25
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.
The anomaly that brought the Narada back released anti-time particles, retroactively applying the relaunch to the timeline. Everything is bigger since 2009 (even my belly)!
Which conviniently stopped in 2154 as the entire Enterprise series still exists as we saw it onscreen, backed up by the numerous references throughout both reboot films, including the NX-01, planet Menk, Admiral Archer, Porthos etc still existing.
It's hard to tell. Perhapes Enterprise originally went seven season, Archer was bold, Mayweather and Reed found love, T'pol learned how to act, etc, with a ship half the size.
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Old September 18 2013, 04:22 PM   #26
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Sci wrote: View Post
Considering that we have no way of knowing how to compare the phaser and warp technologies of the Abramsverse and the Prime Timeline, I don't think there's any reasonable way to answer the question of whether the U.S.S. Vengeance could defeat the Enterprise-E.
Hmm.. they never hit the same targets? Didn't shoot asteroids? That's what helped me realize the strengths of Star Wars ships vs. Star Trek ships. Look for common targets in both universes and see how much damage was done. Buildings? Unshielded ships and objects? Nickel-iron asteroids are the same no matter what.

I'll have to eventually watch the Abrams movies again and look for common targets such as structures, people, etc...
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Old September 18 2013, 04:50 PM   #27
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
white hispanic
Ricardo Montelban was of Mexican descent, and not "white Hispanic."

I googled to double check - Wiki says Ricardo Montalban's parents were Spanish immigrants.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:10 PM   #28
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Considering that we have no way of knowing how to compare the phaser and warp technologies of the Abramsverse and the Prime Timeline, I don't think there's any reasonable way to answer the question of whether the U.S.S. Vengeance could defeat the Enterprise-E.
Hmm.. they never hit the same targets?
So far as I can recall, we only ever see Federation starships of the 2250s either firing phasers on the Narada or upon one-another (Enterprise and Vengeance). So, no, we have no idea how to compare 23rd Century Abrams Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems to 24th Century Prime Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems.

The most we can say is that the Narada, which originated from 2387 of the Prime Timeline as a mining ship, tore damn near every 2258 Abrams Timeline ship she encountered to shreds. We don't know if that's because the standard armaments available to 24th Century mining ships are just that much better than 2258 Abrams Timeline ships', or if it's because the Narada was upgraded with tech that's super-advanced even for the Narada's era.
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Old September 19 2013, 12:24 AM   #29
T'Girl
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
white hispanic
Ricardo Montelban was of Mexican descent, and not "white Hispanic."
I googled to double check - Wiki says Ricardo Montalban's parents were Spanish immigrants.
Yes, the parents immigrate to Mexico, became Mexican citizens, Ricardo was born in Mexico City to Mexican nationals, came to America as a teen, but never became a American citizen.

The exact meaning of "white Hispanic." can be a little hard to nail down, but given Montalban's ancestry, place of birth, and family name, white Hispanic just doesn't apply.


Last edited by T'Girl; September 19 2013 at 12:38 AM.
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Old September 20 2013, 02:30 AM   #30
Wally
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Sci wrote: View Post

So far as I can recall, we only ever see Federation starships of the 2250s either firing phasers on the Narada or upon one-another (Enterprise and Vengeance). So, no, we have no idea how to compare 23rd Century Abrams Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems to 24th Century Prime Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems.

The most we can say is that the Narada, which originated from 2387 of the Prime Timeline as a mining ship, tore damn near every 2258 Abrams Timeline ship she encountered to shreds. We don't know if that's because the standard armaments available to 24th Century mining ships are just that much better than 2258 Abrams Timeline ships', or if it's because the Narada was upgraded with tech that's super-advanced even for the Narada's era.
Exactly. Outside the comic book (which established the Narada had updated Borg tech on it) in the movie Nero was consistently shown as a blue collar "guy" and the Narada was just a mining ship from the future.

That mining ship steamrolled through entire entire armada without a scratch. Even though the thing was huge, it's still just a mining ship.

Meanwhile the Enterprise-E is basically a top of the line Starfleet cruiser. I think it could easily mow down the oversized spooky Vengeance from over 100 years ago.
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