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Old September 17 2013, 07:13 PM   #211
Lindley
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Re: What Happens After Death

bbjeg wrote: View Post
I looked into other religions, read a few other religious books, traced back the histories of religion (the Egyptian deity Horus debunked Jesus for me), and couldn't find anything that worked along with science.
I'm not an expert but I think Buddhism might.
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Old September 17 2013, 08:12 PM   #212
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Re: What Happens After Death

Lindley wrote: View Post
I'm not an expert but I think Buddhism might.
At a quick glance I may have been practicing Buddhism without knowing it. Is their a Buddhist religious doctrine (equivalent to the bible)?
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Old September 17 2013, 08:59 PM   #213
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Re: What Happens After Death

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
"You mean we're made out of stars?!"

"Not just you, but everything around you! We're all made of stars!"

"That's so cool!"
Might be a way to get them to eat vegetables. Concentrated starlight.
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Old September 17 2013, 09:23 PM   #214
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Re: What Happens After Death

Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
Meteors and asteroids are believed to carry building blocks of life, but that's just a theory.
It is established fact that some such objects carry organic molecules like amino acids. The “just a theory” part is whether this contributed to the development of life on Earth.
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Old September 17 2013, 11:54 PM   #215
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Re: What Happens After Death

I believe that when a person dies, they either go to Heaven or Hell. I don't mean to ruin all this scientific talk, but the OP did ask what we believe happens after death.
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Old September 18 2013, 01:05 AM   #216
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Re: What Happens After Death

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I believe that when a person dies, they either go to Heaven or Hell. I don't mean to ruin all this scientific talk, but the OP did ask what we believe happens after death.
I'm afraid you're now under the watchful eye of the atheists. We've put a bounty on your head. Resistance is futile.
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Old September 18 2013, 01:16 AM   #217
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Re: What Happens After Death

This is like the only argument where you have to kill the other to prove your point.
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Old September 18 2013, 01:46 AM   #218
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Re: What Happens After Death

Lindley wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
I looked into other religions, read a few other religious books, traced back the histories of religion (the Egyptian deity Horus debunked Jesus for me), and couldn't find anything that worked along with science.
I'm not an expert but I think Buddhism might.
I actually don't believe that religion and science are necessarily opposed at all. I know many people who are both religious and rational. One can be a Christian and still understand that the bible is a combination of ancient social codes, metaphor, myth, poetry, and history, and not literal truth. One can "debunk" Jesus as you said (not just with Horus, there is also a Greek god who bears an uncanny resemblance to the Christian savior, though his name has slipped my mind), but still believe in what he stands for, still believe that the actual people on whom these myths are based were endowed with some holiness or sanctity. Fundamentalism and science are indeed mutually exclusive, but not religion on its own.

There are aspects of some people's religions that are falsifiable, of course: We can test whether incendiary prayer works (and we have, and it doesn't). We can test if a spirit leaves the body in the form of energy upon death (and we have, and it doesn't). But we cannot test the claim that there was a creator, who created the universe to evolve as if there were no creator. We can't disprove an unfalsifiable god; so long as one can phrase one's beliefs as unfalsifiable claims, unfalsifiable claims remain just that: not within the realm of science to answer.

Again, I don't think that just because something cannot be disproved is a good enough reason to believe in it -- going back to Carl Sagan's invisible, silent, heatless dragon in the garage -- but I do think that the claimed mutual exclusivity between religion and science is untenable, and I think that building such a wall only serves to further the misguided notion that science is a belief system or just another worldview, rather than simply a tool to solve problems.
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Old September 18 2013, 01:54 AM   #219
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Re: What Happens After Death

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I believe that when a person dies, they either go to Heaven or Hell. I don't mean to ruin all this scientific talk, but the OP did ask what we believe happens after death.
I'm afraid you're now under the watchful eye of the atheists. We've put a bounty on your head. Resistance is futile.
Then allow me to also quote 7 of 9: "You will fail."
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Old September 18 2013, 02:01 AM   #220
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Re: What Happens After Death

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I believe that when a person dies, they either go to Heaven or Hell. I don't mean to ruin all this scientific talk, but the OP did ask what we believe happens after death.
I'm afraid you're now under the watchful eye of the atheists. We've put a bounty on your head. Resistance is futile.
Then allow me to also quote 7 of 9: "You will fail."
Allow me to quote Hikaru Sulu from STiD: "If you test me, you will fail."
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Old September 18 2013, 02:40 AM   #221
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Re: What Happens After Death

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
I looked into other religions, read a few other religious books, traced back the histories of religion (the Egyptian deity Horus debunked Jesus for me), and couldn't find anything that worked along with science.
I'm not an expert but I think Buddhism might.
I actually don't believe that religion and science are necessarily opposed at all. I know many people who are both religious and rational. One can be a Christian and still understand that the bible is a combination of ancient social codes, metaphor, myth, poetry, and history, and not literal truth. One can "debunk" Jesus as you said (not just with Horus, there is also a Greek god who bears an uncanny resemblance to the Christian savior, though his name has slipped my mind), but still believe in what he stands for, still believe that the actual people on whom these myths are based were endowed with some holiness or sanctity. Fundamentalism and science are indeed mutually exclusive, but not religion on its own.

There are aspects of some people's religions that are falsifiable, of course: We can test whether incendiary prayer works (and we have, and it doesn't). We can test if a spirit leaves the body in the form of energy upon death (and we have, and it doesn't). But we cannot test the claim that there was a creator, who created the universe to evolve as if there were no creator. We can't disprove an unfalsifiable god; so long as one can phrase one's beliefs as unfalsifiable claims, unfalsifiable claims remain just that: not within the realm of science to answer.

Again, I don't think that just because something cannot be disproved is a good enough reason to believe in it -- going back to Carl Sagan's invisible, silent, heatless dragon in the garage -- but I do think that the claimed mutual exclusivity between religion and science is untenable, and I think that building such a wall only serves to further the misguided notion that science is a belief system or just another worldview, rather than simply a tool to solve problems.
And the next thing you know, she's going to say there's no such thing as magic. Muggles!

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Old September 18 2013, 05:03 AM   #222
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Re: What Happens After Death

^I believe in magic, though it's not the magic most people assume.

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
... We can test if a spirit leaves the body in the form of energy upon death (and we have, and it doesn't).


I'm with everything else you said but I think I never got behind that study because I never looked at it as the soul leaving the body. I looked at it more like the body being no longer able to produce a soul.
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Old September 18 2013, 05:20 AM   #223
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Re: What Happens After Death

bbjeg wrote: View Post
^I believe in magic, though it's not the magic most people assume.

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
... We can test if a spirit leaves the body in the form of energy upon death (and we have, and it doesn't).


I'm with everything else you said but I think I never got behind that study because I never looked at it as the soul leaving the body. I looked at it more like the body being no longer able to produce a soul.
But do you think the soul survives? How can something survive when the thing that produces it can no longer produce it?
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Old September 18 2013, 05:26 AM   #224
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Re: What Happens After Death

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
^I believe in magic, though it's not the magic most people assume.

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
... We can test if a spirit leaves the body in the form of energy upon death (and we have, and it doesn't).


I'm with everything else you said but I think I never got behind that study because I never looked at it as the soul leaving the body. I looked at it more like the body being no longer able to produce a soul.
But do you think the soul survives? How can something survive when the thing that produces it can no longer produce it?
I'm not a believer in souls, but there are two fairly obvious proposals. I throw them out merely for the sake of argument, discussion, and whatnot.

One is that perhaps the soul no longer needs the body, such as by being mature enough to maintain integrity on its own without physical assistance.

The other is that perhaps the soul isn't generated by the body in the first place, but rather merely associated with it for a time.
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Old September 18 2013, 05:27 AM   #225
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Re: What Happens After Death

^I guess they just sound silly to me. Occam's razor and whatnot.
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