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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 15 2013, 07:48 PM   #91
SeerSGB
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

J. Allen wrote: View Post
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Because, as has been pointed out several goddamn times, Marcus was the head of all of Starfleet. You don't take a shit without his permission, nevermind open fire on his ship in Earth orbit.
Not to mention we don't know if Marcus did (and I'm betting the bastard did, probably during the whole speech about them going rogue) already "warn" them that Kirk had gone rogue and was working with the terrorist and had launched an unauthorized attack on the Klingons. Vengeance was the biggest and baddest in the fleet, even if they did see the fight they were probably taking bets on how long before Marcus kicked Kirk's head in.
The way Marcus talks to Kirk towards the end makes it seem like he's also speaking something into the official record. He's very peculiar about how he responds to Kirk. Everything he says just seems to frame Kirk as this dangerous element who must be stopped.
Cause that's his justification for the attack. Makes it all nice and legal.
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Old September 15 2013, 08:02 PM   #92
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

J. Allen wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Because, as has been pointed out several goddamn times, Marcus was the head of all of Starfleet. You don't take a shit without his permission, nevermind open fire on his ship in Earth orbit.
Not to mention we don't know if Marcus did (and I'm betting the bastard did, probably during the whole speech about them going rogue) already "warn" them that Kirk had gone rogue and was working with the terrorist and had launched an unauthorized attack on the Klingons. Vengeance was the biggest and baddest in the fleet, even if they did see the fight they were probably taking bets on how long before Marcus kicked Kirk's head in.
The way Marcus talks to Kirk towards the end makes it seem like he's also speaking something into the official record. He's very peculiar about how he responds to Kirk. Everything he says just seems to frame Kirk as this dangerous element who must be stopped.

That's a hell of an apology, but under any constellation, I was never going to spare your crew'
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Old September 15 2013, 08:06 PM   #93
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post

Not to mention we don't know if Marcus did (and I'm betting the bastard did, probably during the whole speech about them going rogue) already "warn" them that Kirk had gone rogue and was working with the terrorist and had launched an unauthorized attack on the Klingons. Vengeance was the biggest and baddest in the fleet, even if they did see the fight they were probably taking bets on how long before Marcus kicked Kirk's head in.
The way Marcus talks to Kirk towards the end makes it seem like he's also speaking something into the official record. He's very peculiar about how he responds to Kirk. Everything he says just seems to frame Kirk as this dangerous element who must be stopped.

That's a hell of an apology, but under any constellation, I was never going to spare your crew'
I get the impression Kirk and Co. were fucked from the beginning. Even if they had followed orders, Marcus would have made them the fall guys for the attack on the Klingons.
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Old September 15 2013, 09:23 PM   #94
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Presumably, nobody cared when two ships battled it out close to the moon (where, presumably, a few million people live), and then nobody cared, when those two ships fall towards Earth for a couple of minutes. Ships loaded, presumably, with antimatter that could, presumably, obliterate huge chunks of the planet's surface.
See, even when I try to have a normal discussion with you, you can't help but to give it that extra little bit of Jarod charm. Keep that in mind the next time you're wondering why it seems like there's a bit of a negative edge in my responses to you around the board.
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Old September 15 2013, 10:21 PM   #95
Opus
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
I get the impression Kirk and Co. were fucked from the beginning. Even if they had followed orders, Marcus would have made them the fall guys for the attack on the Klingons.
That was the plan: Have Kirk fire into Klingon Space with the long-range torpedoes, stranded because the warp engines had been sabotaged with a viral program hidden in the computer system for the Klingons to find and destroy, starting a war.
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Old September 15 2013, 10:23 PM   #96
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Opus wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
I get the impression Kirk and Co. were fucked from the beginning. Even if they had followed orders, Marcus would have made them the fall guys for the attack on the Klingons.
That was the plan: Have Kirk fire into Klingon Space with the long-range torpedoes, stranded because the warp engines had been sabotaged with a viral program hidden in the computer system for the Klingons to find and destroy, starting a war.
This is why I think everything from the destruction of Section 31 to the attack on Daystrom was part of Marcus's plan. Whether Khan was in on it out not, is another story. Marcus could have been playing himi the whole way through.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:17 PM   #97
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Interesting topic.

...an alternate ending?

What could have happened was Scotty says the same line as TWoK, but when Spock gets down there Kirk is outside the core and Bones tells Spock something like, “good thing he took his anti-radiation shot … he will take some time to recover, but he’ll live…” Then while Kirk lays there, with little to no energy, he – straining – whispers and tells Spock “the needs of the many Spock, Khan was a pawn too… you've got to stop him”. (or something to that effect)

This eliminates the direct rip-off/reversal, doesn’t require Khan’s “super-blood” when there were 71 other sources right at Bones’ fingertips, and makes that tribble and life eternal bull-crap irrelevant.

Oh, and then Spock could use his BRAINS and our wonderful crew instead of his brawn to catch Khan. Then maybe Spock could use his BRAINS and not warp back to Earth with Khan and the Vengeance in tow. You know, where 6+ billion people live placing them all at risk. What do we get? Let’s see, how can we crash a ship in San Francisco Bay and make everyone think its Enterprise in the trailer.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:35 PM   #98
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

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My biggest change would be to just keep cumberbach as John harrison and make him the one that was awakened by admiral marcus.Everything else in the movie stays the same ecxept for the prime spock cameo and Khan in freeze being the motive for Harrison.Let the new crew figure things out on their own.
Then the trek faithful would have complained that they violated canon!! Khan chamber was programmed to open first on the Botany Bay.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:51 PM   #99
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Or the fans would complain - "You missed the opportunity to have Khan in the movie?! Who's Harrison?! He's just a 'Khan-wannabe'! They should have just made him Khan! This movie sux!"

The no-win scenario...
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Old September 16 2013, 06:59 PM   #100
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Opus wrote: View Post
Or the fans would complain - "You missed the opportunity to have Khan in the movie?! Who's Harrison?! He's just a 'Khan-wannabe'! They should have just made him Khan! This movie sux!"

The no-win scenario...
What about John Harrison would specifically remind you of Khan?
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Old September 16 2013, 07:14 PM   #101
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

I would have been happy with the warp chase going on longer with the Enterprise getting a few shots back, then not conveniently dropping out of warp at the moon (When was Sulu planning on dropping out of warp? He must have the reactions of a fly!) followed by an impulse power chase to earth with Kirk alerting the 'ever present' Earth defences where a nice juicy battle ensues showing other classes of federation ships too. Then the rest of the film plays out as it did, they can keep the reverse TWOK scene, hell even the Khan scream if they insist, just show me some Enterprise in action - not noisy explosions of the Enterprise getting its ass kicked without returning a single shot that are over so quick you can't tell what's even on the screen.
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Old September 16 2013, 07:19 PM   #102
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
What about John Harrison would specifically remind you of Khan?
He's a human with genetically engineered superhuman-like abilities?
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Old September 16 2013, 10:18 PM   #103
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Opus wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
What about John Harrison would specifically remind you of Khan?
He's a human with genetically engineered superhuman-like abilities?
That is a pretty generic reminiscence. I doubt that without the Khan plot he would have been. Either he would have been naturally skilled, or some sort of human-alien hybrid.

So, what else reminds you of Khan?
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Old September 17 2013, 02:56 AM   #104
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post
That's a hell of an apology, but under any constellation, I was never going to spare your crew'
hee hee
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Old September 17 2013, 03:00 AM   #105
CorporalClegg
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I doubt that without the Khan plot he would have been. Either he would have been naturally skilled, or some sort of human-alien hybrid.
How the fuck do you know?

And I'm sure if, Chang, Soran, Ru'afo, Shinzon, and Nero can--in some way--remind people of Khan, I'm sure someone would have come up with something for Harrison.
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