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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 16 2013, 06:26 PM   #16
Sindatur
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Opus wrote: View Post
Well to be fair, I didn't write that. I was quoting someone else.
Yea I read that, but, if you don't want the quotes challenged, why post them?
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Old September 16 2013, 06:48 PM   #17
Opus
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

ComicGuy89 wrote: View Post
I wonder, why are you sharing these? This is not a snide remark, I'm just curious as to what you wish for us to do with them. Discuss them?
Absolutely discuss them. They are from Trek fans on another board. Any agreement/disagreement? So far people acknowledge that perhaps STiD has more redeemable qualities than first thought, which is good.

In TOS, the moral was often whammed into your face with a healthy side of phaser action.
I agree. It was ham-handed most of the time. Was this the case at all with STiD?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Yea I read that, but, if you don't want the quotes challenged, why post them?
I do want them challenged. Or agree.

Some on the STiD creative team indeed were fans. Abrams was not, however. And he's steering the ship, after all.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:52 PM   #18
Ln X
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Opus wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Yea I read that, but, if you don't want the quotes challenged, why post them?
I do want them challenged. Or agree.

Some on the STiD creative team indeed were fans. Abrams was not, however. And he's steering the ship, after all.
You mean you want to forcibly change the opinions of those Trek fans who did not like the movie?
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Old September 16 2013, 07:06 PM   #19
Opus
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Do you agree with these statements about the movies I've posted, or are the bunk? Not trying to force anyone's opinion to change.
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Old September 16 2013, 07:44 PM   #20
Sindatur
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Opus wrote: View Post
ComicGuy89 wrote: View Post
I wonder, why are you sharing these? This is not a snide remark, I'm just curious as to what you wish for us to do with them. Discuss them?
Absolutely discuss them. They are from Trek fans on another board. Any agreement/disagreement? So far people acknowledge that perhaps STiD has more redeemable qualities than first thought, which is good.

In TOS, the moral was often whammed into your face with a healthy side of phaser action.
I agree. It was ham-handed most of the time. Was this the case at all with STiD?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Yea I read that, but, if you don't want the quotes challenged, why post them?
I do want them challenged. Or agree.

Some on the STiD creative team indeed were fans. Abrams was not, however. And he's steering the ship, after all.
Ah, OK. the way you replied "To be fair, I'm just quoting someone else" seemed like you were offended that I asked if that was bit about the screenplay writer(s) having to be forced to watch some Trek was true. Sorry about that
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Old September 16 2013, 07:51 PM   #21
Opus
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

No worries, Sindatur. I've been trying to be better at expressing myself on the message boards I visit. My apologies for coming off that way. I can assure you I am rarely, if ever, hostile or hurt.

This is a rare moment that I have started a thread and I'm still learning the ropes, even after all these years. I hope people come in and debate, agree and disagree about the posts I've put up because I find them interesting that they are similar in many respects to posts made here by those who have been disappointed with STiD, Abrams and the current state of Trek.
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Old September 16 2013, 09:22 PM   #22
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Opus wrote: View Post
You think we've had it tough here? You should read what Trek fans are saying on other sites:

I feel constrained to tell you that Kirk's character was severely distorted in STiD. Even I, who liked the movie, can be objectively aware of that. His actions in the movie are perfect examples of characterization rape. The screenplay was written by a people who had to be sat down to watch Star Trek and had never watched it before. Abrams is NOT a fan of Star Trek. His professed love of the concept has always struck me as hypocrisy - He knows beans about James T. Kirk or how Kirk would act.... Look, it's a sad fact of life that from now on the 'public' Star Trek is JJ Abrams's show. He, in all his vast, omnipotent, well-meaning ignorance will do whatever the hell he wants to do with it and Kirk.
Now that I've seen it, and have also had time to mellow, to really think about it, I now find it absolutely, unbearably repulsive in every way except for some of the acting.
STiD was created for the money ...big bucks and for the mass audience at large, and this is fine to a degree. But it neglected the most important factor... Roddenberry' s ideology.
... and much more.

Anybody agree?
These criticisms seem...familiar somehow.
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Old September 16 2013, 09:24 PM   #23
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

I wonder which Roddenberry ideology these films neglected. Roddenberry circa 1966 or Roddenberry circa 1987?
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Old September 16 2013, 09:55 PM   #24
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

I'm guessing either.
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Old September 16 2013, 10:23 PM   #25
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Since when was Star Trek an ideology? The last time I checked, it was a television show and a series of movies. It would help if die-hard Abrams haters actually elaborated upon terms and phrases such as the 'philosophy of Trek' and 'Gene's vision'.

For what it's worth, I think that STID dealt with a lot of contemporary political and social issues, including the morality of preventative/preemptive war and unmanned drone strikes, the rights and wrongs of terrorism, and the security v liberty nexus.
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Old September 16 2013, 10:30 PM   #26
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
Since when was Star Trek an ideology?
Since Gene spent that wild weekend at the place just south of Tuscan enjoying the fruits and rye of the local cacti.
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Old September 16 2013, 10:31 PM   #27
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
Since when was Star Trek an ideology?
Since Gene spent that wild weekend at the place just south of Tuscan enjoying the fruits and rye of the local cacti.
I forgot about that!
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Old September 16 2013, 11:19 PM   #28
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
Since when was Star Trek an ideology? The last time I checked, it was a television show and a series of movies. It would help if die-hard Abrams haters actually elaborated upon terms and phrases such as the 'philosophy of Trek' and 'Gene's vision'.

For what it's worth, I think that STID dealt with a lot of contemporary political and social issues, including the morality of preventative/preemptive war and unmanned drone strikes, the rights and wrongs of terrorism, and the security v liberty nexus.
Apparently Trek became a religion shortly before Abrams took over, that's why his changes are treated like rebooting the Bible by some fans.

Also for what it's worth, I think that STID dealt with ideas that we should explain and was a lot more critical of our civilization than any other Trek movie or show has ever been. Usually they paint a guy white and black then use it as an example of how wrong and silly racism is and how Earth doesn't do that anymore. STID took the high and mighty Federation and showed them doing terrible things for the greater good.

We needed that because we see ourselves as the heroes, not the silly primitive aliens with funny foreheads. But we're doing some terrible things and we ignore it because we want to see ourselves as the heroes instead of the country that sends drones to kill people and wind up killing a lot of innocent people. That's not who we're supposed to be and we need to stop.
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Old September 16 2013, 11:31 PM   #29
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

The suggestion in one of the quotes that the writers had never watched Star Trek before is kind of laughable in light of the fact that STID is also widely criticized for ripping off prior Trek.
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Old September 17 2013, 12:38 AM   #30
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Gene Rodenberry was a visionary, no doubt about that. However, not every idea that he had was a good one, to pretend so is foolish. Gene wasn't a big fan of WOK from what I hear and that's widely considered to be the best Star Trek movie ever made. If we followed "Gene's vision" then DS9 would probably never have been made, and we certainly wouldn't have gotten the Dominion War. Gene never wanted significant conflicts amongst crew members, which is both boring and unrealistic. He was a great creator, but certainly not a perfect one.
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