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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

View Poll Results: What is wrong with "Genesis"?
It's science is flawed - (d)evolution doesn't work like that 14 22.58%
I am a creationist - (d)evolution is a falsehood 2 3.23%
It is simply a rubbish episode 13 20.97%
I love it 33 53.23%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 16 2013, 01:58 AM   #31
Trekker4747
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

And that's one of the focal points of why I thing this episode is so poor and endemic of the problems Trek starting having, particularly when it comes to Braga's writing. He doesn't seem to consider anything beyond an episodic nature or what he's writing SAYS things and has CONSEQUENCES.

This episode shows that if someone is suffering from simple illness all it takes is an absent-minded shot of a hypospray to cause a virus that can "de-evolve" anyone and everyone. It created an AIRBORNE pathogen! All from ONE. Single. Hypospray shot. The episode would still have mountains of problems if what kicked this off was something vastly more complex but at least it wouldn't seem like this happening wasn't "so easy."

Fine, I'll accept that this "could happen" that there's some aspect to genetics, DNA, RNA or whatever at some complex level beyond our current understanding that'd allow for this. Fine. That's Star Trek science by and large.

But it's utterly stupid that it could happen so easily.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:57 PM   #32
JarodRussell
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Similar to "Create a character that is a match for Data" and - poof - an artificial, sentient, self aware intelligence is created. No fucking way. Genesis is a medical WTF, Moriarty is a computer science WTF.
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Old September 16 2013, 07:27 PM   #33
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

I love this episode, creepy and great.

this episode is actually my very first memory of any Star Trek
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Old September 16 2013, 08:16 PM   #34
Isolinear
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Yes the science is flawed, but it's still a fun episode. A Star Trek episode with 100% correct science? HA! Doesn't exist!
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Old September 17 2013, 02:48 AM   #35
Hober Mallow
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I like Genesis, don't care about the science in it.

I don't think that in any episode the concept of evolution has been used correctly. There is no path forwards or backwards, you cannot suddenly evolve or de-evolve.
Especially if you're de-evolving into something a human being never was in the first place.

The episode is an embarrassment. Suspension of disbelief can only take one so far. The topper is Bevery cracking jokes at the end. What, I'm responsible for the violent death of Ensign Noname? Don't worry about it, we'll just push the reset button even before the episode ends.

I guess it's a fun episode to watch the way an Ed Wood movie is fun to watch.
Isolinear wrote: View Post
Yes the science is flawed, but it's still a fun episode. A Star Trek episode with 100% correct science? HA! Doesn't exist!
The story of Genesis in the Bible is more scientifically accurate than Braga's episode of the same name.
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Old September 17 2013, 07:59 AM   #36
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Up until that time my general impression of The Next Generation was, even though it was entertaining, it spent most of its time being preachy, condescending and just all around full of its own importance, like it had nothing better to do than give an ethics lecture every week.
Sharp analysis. TNG had its moments, but the overall feeling running through it (and most of the Berman series) was like it was filtered through the viewpoint of late 80s/90s PBS, instead of a series fueled by strong writers. 20+ years after its debut, is it any wonder the often tepid, reserved TNG did not take hold in the popular culture like TOS?
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Old September 18 2013, 03:19 AM   #37
JirinPanthosa
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

TNG had some flaws but its message was not among them. It's a little sick that "Mankind may not be inherently violent, greedy and awful" is considered preachy and arrogant.

This episode, however, was badly written and badly staged.
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Old September 18 2013, 04:10 PM   #38
Hober Mallow
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
TNG had some flaws but its message was not among them. It's a little sick that "Mankind may not be inherently violent, greedy and awful" is considered preachy and arrogant.
There's a difference between simply writing a story with humans who've transcended the baser aspects of our species and preaching to the audience.
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Old September 18 2013, 05:50 PM   #39
The Badger
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

jpv2000 wrote: View Post
I am a Christian so I went with the creationist option.
That's rather a non sequiter. One can be religious and still accept the fact of evolution. Catholicism has recognised for years that natural selection is responsible for the development of humanity.
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Old September 19 2013, 01:03 PM   #40
Chensams
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

I just rewatched with my wife and 3 kids (13, 11, 9) and my wife and 13 year old both said "what???" when Spot devolved into a lizard (my same reaction 20 years ago). Afterwards, everyone basically liked it but thought the science was really dodgy. Entertaining episode though.
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Old September 19 2013, 03:56 PM   #41
Hober Mallow
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Chensams wrote: View Post
I just rewatched with my wife and 3 kids (13, 11, 9) and my wife and 13 year old both said "what???" when Spot devolved into a lizard (my same reaction 20 years ago). Afterwards, everyone basically liked it but thought the science was really dodgy. Entertaining episode though.
I don't remember exactly what Spot devolved into, but as all mammals have reptilian ancestors, that makes some modicum of sense. But how does Barclay "devolve" into a spider?
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Old September 19 2013, 06:36 PM   #42
Trekker4747
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

IIRC Spot devolved into an iguana. (It should be noted into a FULL iguana. Now, obviously this is because in production terms it's easier to get an iguana than it is to glue a punch of iguana-like appliances to a cat but "in-show" it has some implications on the ultimate terminus of the "disease." Spot was a cat, possible a small enough and "simple" enough a creature for the de-evolution to quickly occur. This could mean everyone else would have continued to "de-evolve" until they reached the "full version" of whatever they were becoming. I could be argued that Riker, Nurse Ogawa and Worf were already there. (Which begs the question on why they wouldn't *keep* "de-evolving" from even that. Was the ultimate route of this infection for everyone to become single-celled organisms? Simple proteins? Ehh, I'm sure the transporter or Data cure-all embryonic juice would've brought everyone back to perfect health anyway so we can all have a good laugh at Barclay's insecurities.
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Old September 19 2013, 07:06 PM   #43
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I don't remember exactly what Spot devolved into, but as all mammals have reptilian ancestors, that makes some modicum of sense. But how does Barclay "devolve" into a spider?
Maybe after the Cytherians took him over, some of his DNA was permanently rewritten to resemble theirs and no one noticed it. And maybe the Cytherians were descended from arachnid ancestors, so he devolved into one of them.

Hey, it makes more sense than the actual episode.
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Old September 19 2013, 08:54 PM   #44
KaraBear
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

isn't the point of tv to entertain? if the science isn't comletly accurate who cares?

if I really wanted a science lesson I would watch a documentary, not a science FICTION tv show
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Old September 19 2013, 11:09 PM   #45
Trekker4747
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

KaraBear wrote: View Post
isn't the point of tv to entertain? if the science isn't comletly accurate who cares?
Things should at least make sense, be consistent and, well, not fall apart when thought about for more than a moment. I mean what if in an episode Picard just snapped his fingers, grew wings, and then started riding a magical pony through the galaxy. Hey, who cares as long as it entertains!

Being entertaining isn't a blank-check to do whatever the hell you want. You have to at least have it make sense and, ideally, an impact.

I'll accept a "virus" or other infection that can "de-evolve" people (or I guess more accurately mutate people into animals by scrambling DNA.) But it becomes harder and harder to accept it when you forget such an idea has consequences.

Which is this episode's biggest problem. It completely ignores the consequences this thing would have. Like I said up-thread there are civilians and children on the ship. De-evolved too. This de-evolution reduced the sizes of people's brains. Stuff you just don't "get back."

But the biggest thing is the humor moment at the end of episode that completely shrugs away everything that happened. Beverly's reconstructive surgery, Worf and Riker killing people, that people ARE dead. That this incident must have had some impact on the children and civilians on the ship but, no, we just have a funny little laugh and forget about all of that.
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