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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 5 2013, 12:32 AM   #61
jpv2000
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Re: STVI without the racism

Leto_II wrote: View Post
At least one novel, In the Name of Honor, attempted to reconcile this character discrepancy, with Kirk witnessing another wanton, unnecessary slaughter of innocents by Klingon forces (set just after Star Trek V), and reaching something of a final breaking-point in his attitudes.
I'm glad a novel at least addresses this. I'll have to pick that one up as I haven't read it.
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Old September 5 2013, 03:46 AM   #62
Leto_II
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Re: STVI without the racism

Definitely grab it -- it's a great story, and really addresses in detail several major character-issues left over from the movies:

http://www.amazon.com/Name-Honor-Sta...dp/0743412257/
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Old September 5 2013, 04:08 AM   #63
C.E. Evans
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Re: STVI without the racism

Even without books, it seemed as if something had soured Federation and Klingon relations in the years between Star Treks V and VII.

But then, I tend to think that the situation between the Federation and Klingons was never stable during Kirk's time, with alternating periods of hostility and détente, IMO.
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Old September 5 2013, 05:18 AM   #64
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Re: STVI without the racism

In TOS Klingons were always assholes. They have always been assholes to some extent up until TNG. But even in TNG they're assholes sometimes. How would you treat a person who always acts like an asshole whenever you encounter them? It's not racism.
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Old September 8 2013, 10:06 PM   #65
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Re: STVI without the racism

I like to think that there was an off-screen, nasty run in with klingons right before Praxis, making the older crew a little miffed.
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Old September 9 2013, 05:47 PM   #66
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Re: STVI without the racism

I think it's safe to assume that like any real-world relationship between opposing peoples, it's going to have its ebb and flow, and for any frontline officer, over time this is going to take a toll.
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Last edited by Praetor; September 10 2013 at 02:02 AM.
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Old September 10 2013, 01:00 AM   #67
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Re: STVI without the racism

Kirk is very much motivated by a personal bigotry. Kruge killed his son, and that is at the forefront of his feelings. "I can never forgive them for the death of my boy." He blames them all for the act of one. That's at least half of his problem. The other half is... Well, in the title. He admits to Bones he's uneasy about the idea of "no more neutral zone. I was used to hating Klingons."

Though it's true that many of the situations between Enterprise's crew and the klingons never began very nicely, many of them did turn out quite amicably in TOS. In Errand and Dove, both situations seem to end with a bit of understanding. Both show at least the faintest chance for peace between the two sides.

Also, let's not forget Trouble with Tribbles. What does Chekov say? Oh yeah... "Clwose enuf tu smel dem."
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Old September 10 2013, 02:04 AM   #68
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Re: STVI without the racism

And don't forget the Organians prediction in "Errand" - and the fact that Kor and Kirk, who were at each other's throats for most of the episode, were positively chummy at the prospect of working together against the Organians. However, I suspect that's mostly so they could finish cleaning each other's clocks. Not unlike what we got with the conspirators in TUC?
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Old September 10 2013, 06:20 PM   #69
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Re: STVI without the racism

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
Also, let's not forget Trouble with Tribbles. What does Chekov say? Oh yeah... "Clwose enuf tu smel dem."
I remember that comment. He certainly didn't seem to mind getting close to Kang's wife, Mara.
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Old September 16 2013, 04:45 PM   #70
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Re: STVI without the racism

Ensign_Redshirt wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Prejudice against the Klingons doesn't really stem from racism at all. It stems from the fact they have a culture that celebrates violence, that has a proven track record of consistent aggression against humanity.
I'd bet real money that a lot of Americans would have said that about the Japanese too, ca. 1942.
Have you considered that the Americans would have been correct and justified? Many Japanese carry with them the belief that they are both culturally AND genetically (traditionally isolated and therefore pure) superior to Americans (try working with Toyota or Honda for a few years if you doubt me). Klingons have ALWAYS been portrayed as believing that they are superior to "earthers." The Klingons in TUC are almost totally different characterizations of traditional Klingons (i.e. Gowron) than we have seen before. Am I the only one who noticed the effeminacy of Chang? Where else do you see this in Trek?
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Last edited by umichigan; September 16 2013 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Incorrect word
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Old September 16 2013, 04:50 PM   #71
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Re: STVI without the racism

publiusr wrote: View Post
I like to think that there was an off-screen, nasty run in with klingons right before Praxis, making the older crew a little miffed.
IIRC, the novelization for STVI has something exactly along this line. Some sort of klingon attack/massacre on a Federation colony world. Been a long while since I read it, but I seem to remember a scence with Kirk visiting a horribly injured Carol Marcus in a hospital.

An event like this right before what we see in STVI might explain some of the attitudes of the Enteprise crew, I think.
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