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Old September 16 2013, 04:36 PM   #451
Ryan8bit
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
It was kind of surprising to see him react to the knife fight the way he did. I mean Skyler slashed at Walt. It seemed like Walt just tried to subdue her and get the weapon away, and Flynn now views that as his dad attacking and trying to hurt his mom? Wow. The kid's really been hurt to have switched over so quickly.
I didn't find it surprising at all. He's a decent kid and now he's got the facts he saw the situation the way it is: Walt's the bad guy.
You don't find it surprising for a character to do a complete 180 in a few hours? Ok.

And it's not as if he really did have the facts or have a handle on the situation. Neither he nor Skyler did. Skyler was thinking that Walt killed Hank, when that was not the case. In that instance, Walt was really only trying to protect them, even if he has his own weird, misguided reasons for doing so.
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Old September 16 2013, 04:37 PM   #452
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Must. Have. More. Vince Gilligan you magnificent bastard.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:04 PM   #453
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
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I don't like the way Gomey died off-screen. Or that suddenly Hank has a mortal wound when they both seemed perfectly fine at the end of the previous episode.
For me I thought it was weird how Flynn was told about Walt off screen. I definitely would have liked to see more Flynn reaction.

It was kind of surprising to see him react to the knife fight the way he did. I mean Skyler slashed at Walt. It seemed like Walt just tried to subdue her and get the weapon away, and Flynn now views that as his dad attacking and trying to hurt his mom? Wow. The kid's really been hurt to have switched over so quickly.
Well he just learned his dad was a drug kingpin, that he might've killed Hank, and he wouldn't leave the house despite Skylar's insistence.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:15 PM   #454
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

So there was a lot of confusion about Walt's phone call to Skyler and I didn't immediately get it either; he's very unlike himself in the phone call and on second viewing I could see what he was up to: he's trying to get Skylar off the hook for being a willing accomplice. It's all there.

BTW, at this point given Flynn/Walt Jr's reaction against his dad, is there any chance that Skylar and Walt Jr. would even take Walt's money? Because I could easily see them both surviving, running the car wash together. Walt Jr. obviously seemed to be enjoying working there before his life exploded. I'm not sure either of them would take any measure of Walt's Kingpin $$$ after the family split up last night.

This was pretty amazing television. So looking forward to the final 2 eps being about payback from Walt to the Brotherhood. I guess Jesse and Walt are pretty much secured to have an least one more interaction. To that point: this is a tv series about meth labs. Before it, my only memeory of meth labs discussed in popular culture is that they explode when attended to poorly. Does anyone else think Jesse's exit strategy (alive or dead) may involve blowing the lab sky high? I'd sure as fuck rather blow up in a meth lab than be tortured over a long period of time.

Flash forward for the final two? I just love that Walt still has nearly two hours of things to do. Most shows blow their big wad in the final episode, not two before.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:17 PM   #455
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Walt Jr. was protecting his mom. It was the basic instinct that his mom was being attacked/in a scuffle with his dad. No matter how much you love your dad, when your mom is hurt/being attacked, you protect your mom. I think, in the heat of the moment, what Walt Jr. did was what anyone would do if they were thrust into that situation.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:17 PM   #456
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

After all this time, I only now just watched all the minisodes. What a wonderful relief from how dark things have gotten toward the end. If you haven't seen them, do so. Wedding Day & Team Science are particularly poignant in retrospect
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Old September 16 2013, 05:22 PM   #457
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

TheMurph wrote: View Post
Must. Have. More. Vince Gilligan you magnificent bastard.
I want to have Gilligan to make the next Star Trek series. Or just about any series. I think him and Whedon could make the best television human history would ever see.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:25 PM   #458
OdoWanKenobi
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

^They already have, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:26 PM   #459
davejames
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Wow, after an episode like that, you'd think we'd only have one episode left, not two! Hard to imagine would could possibly happen next. Although with Walt leaving town, it seems pretty likely the next episode will focus heavily on Jesse's current situation, with him trying to escape from Todd somehow.

And count me as another one who didn't realize (until I read some recaps afterward) the true purpose behind that phone call to Skyler at the end. I just thought Walt was lashing out in anger and being unnecessarily cruel, but it should have been obvious what was really going on there.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:29 PM   #460
J.T.B.
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
You don't find it surprising for a character to do a complete 180 in a few hours? Ok.
Life-or-death knife struggles have a way of focusing the mind very quickly.

And it's not as if he really did have the facts or have a handle on the situation. Neither he nor Skyler did. Skyler was thinking that Walt killed Hank, when that was not the case. In that instance, Walt was really only trying to protect them, even if he has his own weird, misguided reasons for doing so.
Flynn may not know all the details, but he knows the situation. Walt's guilt was all over his face, he couldn't answer about Hank, and his mother's protective intentions were clear. Plus they made a point of showing that Flynn can see through Walt's BS a couple of episodes ago.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:32 PM   #461
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

IMO, Season 5 is the best of the series, Season 4 is second.. I hope there are Emmys all around!
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Old September 16 2013, 05:37 PM   #462
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
It was kind of surprising to see him react to the knife fight the way he did. I mean Skyler slashed at Walt. It seemed like Walt just tried to subdue her and get the weapon away, and Flynn now views that as his dad attacking and trying to hurt his mom? Wow. The kid's really been hurt to have switched over so quickly.
I didn't find it surprising at all. He's a decent kid and now he's got the facts he saw the situation the way it is: Walt's the bad guy.
You don't find it surprising for a character to do a complete 180 in a few hours? Ok.

And it's not as if he really did have the facts or have a handle on the situation. Neither he nor Skyler did. Skyler was thinking that Walt killed Hank, when that was not the case. In that instance, Walt was really only trying to protect them, even if he has his own weird, misguided reasons for doing so.
I don't think it matters that Walt didn't pull the trigger on Hank. His actions directly caused Hank's death. It's his fault, at least as much as it's Jack's fault. As they say in court, "intent follows the bullet." Those bullets were meant for Jesse. They just wound up in Hank and Gomez. It doesn't matter that the "wrong" people died. It matters that Walt intended for people to die in the first place.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:05 PM   #463
Ryan8bit
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I don't think it matters that Walt didn't pull the trigger on Hank. His actions directly caused Hank's death. It's his fault, at least as much as it's Jack's fault. As they say in court, "intent follows the bullet." Those bullets were meant for Jesse. They just wound up in Hank and Gomez. It doesn't matter that the "wrong" people died. It matters that Walt intended for people to die in the first place.
That's a strange concept of accountability.

Hank is dead because he made the same mistake that Walter ever made, which is partnering up with Jesse. It's been a dangerous thing for many.

Jesse's plan of tricking Walt, while cunning, was really foolish. It was basically like cornering a certain type of rabid animal. In most situations, that animal would run away, but when cornered, that animal will fight back. If Jesse hadn't tried to lure Walt out into the desert into an unknown situation, he wouldn't have brought the danger upon them. Walter even gave Hank the warning in the mid-season opener that he shouldn't flirt with the kind of danger that he doesn't understand, and he was right, albeit for the wrong reasons.

Hank should have known better than to go through with Jesse's plan, but every major player in this show is too blinded by their emotion to see their goals achieved. I think Walt definitely deserves a lot of the blame for setting things in motion, but that doesn't make people like Jesse completely blame-free, and even Hank isn't exactly the white knight.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:12 PM   #464
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

This show is incredible. I started watching it via Netflix, last weekend. I'm already on season 2.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:12 PM   #465
137th Gebirg
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I don't think it matters that Walt didn't pull the trigger on Hank. His actions directly caused Hank's death. It's his fault, at least as much as it's Jack's fault. As they say in court, "intent follows the bullet." Those bullets were meant for Jesse. They just wound up in Hank and Gomez. It doesn't matter that the "wrong" people died. It matters that Walt intended for people to die in the first place.
That's a strange concept of accountability.

Hank is dead because he made the same mistake that Walter ever made, which is partnering up with Jesse. It's been a dangerous thing for many.

Jesse's plan of tricking Walt, while cunning, was really foolish. It was basically like cornering a certain type of rabid animal. In most situations, that animal would run away, but when cornered, that animal will fight back. If Jesse hadn't tried to lure Walt out into the desert into an unknown situation, he wouldn't have brought the danger upon them. Walter even gave Hank the warning in the mid-season opener that he shouldn't flirt with the kind of danger that he doesn't understand, and he was right, albeit for the wrong reasons.

Hank should have known better than to go through with Jesse's plan, but every major player in this show is too blinded by their emotion to see their goals achieved. I think Walt definitely deserves a lot of the blame for setting things in motion, but that doesn't make people like Jesse completely blame-free, and even Hank isn't exactly the white knight.
Very true. Jesse wanted to "hurt Walt where he really lived" and tried to change the rules of someone else's game. Last night's events are a direct result of that miscalculation. Had Jesse stuck with Hank's original plan, it likely would have turned out a lot less bloody.

So yes, I agree that Jesse should share in some of the blame for architecting Hank's & Gomez' deaths, no matter how noble the original intent. One would have thought Walt's original intent to be noble (as evidenced by the first-scene flash-back), and we have all seen what that has gotten him.

Bottom line, Jesse just really isn't all that smart - certainly not smart enough to wear the big-boy pants. He overestimated his own abilities and underestimated everyone else's - a recurring theme in this show.
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