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Old September 15 2013, 09:23 PM   #31
Rainbow Dash
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
As my Mother says, just because you can doesn't mean you should!

The fact that we can digest meat doesn't make it right. To be fair, in a survival situation I would eat meat without any hesitation. I just can't see the justification for killing when there is no need to.
Meat is a part of the overall human diet. Again, that we can go without eating meat is a nice side effect of our omnivorous nature, but not everyone can do it, and neither should they necessarily do so. "Right" and "wrong" doesn't even play into it, only degrees of ethicality.

On the ethical side of things, we can treat our food supply with a little more respect. We do have the capacity for higher reasoning. Nature designed our bodies for the cutting and tearing of meat, along with the consumption of plants, yes, but, we don't have to be cruel. Humans can still eat meat without causing undue harm on the environment or the animal population. I'm fully behind food ethics, but saying that eating meat is wrong? No, that has no basis in fact. It is simply an opinion that you hold, and that's fine, but judging others for eating meat, something their bodies are designed to do, that is wrong.
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Old September 16 2013, 12:52 AM   #32
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I always love when people get so defensive about vegetarians and vegans as if there's any possibility of them forcing you not to eat meat any time in the near future. MLB has to relentlessly beat their philosophy into the ground in every second post like he thinks the "meat is murder" stormtroopers could come kicking down his door at any moment, even though no one is pushing anything on him. I feel like asking him to point to the spot on the cucumber where the vegetarian touched him.

Yeah, some of the more fanatical ones who criticize or attack people who eat meat can be obnoxious, just as zealots of any type can be, but the people who go over the top deriding vegetarians and vegans in general are just as irritating. They're not a threat to your way of life. They're a mild nuisance, at worst, and have no chance of denying you your right to eat bacon anytime soon. Relax.
Seriously, this shit gets so annoying. My sisters are both vegans, and my older sister is raising my nephews vegan; the shit they get is unbelievable! Sure, extremists like PETA deserve most of the flak they get, but I find the hypocrisy of those who scoff at vegetarianism even more obnoxious. Why on earth do people become morally outraged over another's choice not to eat meat? In my experience living with vegans it is far more common for meat-eaters to harass and pressure vegans and vegetarians about their dietary choices than the other way around.

Personally, I do eat meat, because it's fucking delicious. I love steak, I love lobster, I love a surf and turf dinner. But I eat it only very rarely, because it is not very healthy (and don't give me shit about how we need meat to be healthy: vegetarians have a longer life-expectancy and lower rates of cardiovascular disease and cancer than meat-eaters, and the rates are directly correlated to how much meat people eat) it's expensive, and there are legit environmental/economical reasons not to eat it -- though to be honest, I don't care about those as much as I probably should. I don't think it is wrong to eat meat, but that doesn't mean I can't understand why people like Relayer, and my sisters do. My younger sister takes veganism very seriously. She does not use any product that comes from an animal; this includes honey and wearing pearls. This may seem extreme to some, but it makes sense given her morals: she believes that exploiting animals for any purpose is wrong, whether or not the animal suffers for that exploitation.

The way I see it, the moral line here is completely fucking arbitrary. Animals in the wild suffer horrible deaths to become food for other animals. Does this mean it is morally right for them to suffer to become our food? Or is it morally right for us to kill them with as little suffering as possible, because we can? Or is it morally right to refrain from killing them altogether, assuming we have the luxury of living without exploiting animals? Everyone draws their line where thy will, and I don't see why it's anyone else's business.

I think it all comes back to the fucking Diet Police: everyone thinks they know best how other people should eat. Well, that's stupid as hell. Don't you have more important things to be angry about than Relayer choosing the seitan bacon over the dead pig?
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Old September 16 2013, 01:15 AM   #33
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

I eat meat and I have no ethical concerns about it. I have concerns about the treatment of animals, and I have concerns about the environmental toll of the meat industry, but that's another story.

Still, these

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
There will always be meat eaters. If you don't eat it, someone else will.
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The consumer is not the one who killed the animal, they just eat the finished product.
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Animals are put on this planet FOR our pleasure.
have to be the most morally bankrupt arguments I ever saw regarding this topic.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, we have this:

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
The way I see it, the moral line here is completely fucking arbitrary. Animals in the wild suffer horrible deaths to become food for other animals. Does this mean it is morally right for them to suffer to become our food? Or is it morally right for us to kill them with as little suffering as possible, because we can? Or is it morally right to refrain from killing them altogether, assuming we have the luxury of living without exploiting animals? Everyone draws their line where thy will, and I don't see why it's anyone else's business.
Quoted because it is worth repeating.
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Old September 16 2013, 01:15 AM   #34
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

More animals were killed to put a loaf of bread on your table than for your last steak.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Eat big delicious animals, save lives.
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Old September 16 2013, 01:17 AM   #35
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Seriously, this shit gets so annoying. My sisters are both vegans, and my older sister is raising my nephews vegan; the shit they get is unbelievable! Sure, extremists like PETA deserve most of the flak they get, but I find the hypocrisy of those who scoff at vegetarianism even more obnoxious. Why on earth do people become morally outraged over another's choice not to eat meat? In my experience living with vegans it is far more common for meat-eaters to harass and pressure vegans and vegetarians about their dietary choices than the other way around.
I used to get the same sort of pressure because I don't drink alcohol. Except for declaring my own house 'alcohol-free' I have no problem with other people drinking alcohol sensibly so I can't understans why they get upset over me beinga teetotaller.

I have, over the years, several friends who are vegetarians. I have no problems with the making that choice and I can understand how frustrating it must be for them when we eat out because often there aren't enough choices for vegetarians on menus though this has improved somewhat over the years. I don't think any of my friends have been vegans.
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Old September 16 2013, 02:16 AM   #36
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
I think it all comes back to the fucking Diet Police: everyone thinks they know best how other people should eat. Well, that's stupid as hell. Don't you have more important things to be angry about than Relayer choosing the seitan bacon over the dead pig?
Though within this thread we have an equal number of meat eaters and non-meat-eaters getting morally righteous about their dietary choice.

Personally each to their own. The "sanctity of life" argument's never held for me, because plants are alive too. Though it's just that arbitrary line that you're talking about. Unfortunately I do have a negative view of veganism because the extreme of it just seems over the top to me and the only vegans I've met are the arrogant condescending type... but of course not everybody's like that.
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Old September 16 2013, 02:34 AM   #37
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

^Yeah, my sisters couldn't be further from that. My little sister will patiently explain her reasoning if anyone asks, but even though being vegan is a very important part of her life and identity, she never makes it the topic of conversation, never pushes it upon others, and I've never felt judged by her or any of her (massive group) of vegan friends. (She spends a lot of time socializing on vegan message boards and even met her boyfriend through one.)

I don't really see veganism as being extreme, in fact, it's pretty reasonable and more consistent than vegetarianism, I think. You have one simple premise: don't exploit animals. Don't use any product made by or from animals. Easy peasy. The only time I ever got into any kind of debate with my sister over her veganism was when I argued that it is a privileged choice, that some people cannot live without using animals in some way or another. I eventually convinced her of the truth of this, and peace was restored.

I know there are vegans of the fanatical and arrogant type you've encountered, but through my sister I've met a huge number, and none of them have ever been like that to me.
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Old September 16 2013, 03:43 AM   #38
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

I'm a vegetarian (formerly vegan) and I do not feel the need to tell anybody what to eat or to tell anybody why I eat what I eat. I don't care what you eat as long as you don't care what I eat. XD

Just saying.
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Old September 16 2013, 03:44 AM   #39
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
I'm a vegetarian (formerly vegan) and I do not feel the need to tell anybody what to eat or to tell anybody why I eat what I eat. I don't care what you eat as long as you don't care what I eat. XD

Just saying.
That's what it should be, IMO as well.
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Old September 16 2013, 03:46 AM   #40
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

A lot of people at my work find it amusing to make fun of me...but I still see no reason to make fun of what others eat. If you do not mind me saying...I really do not give a s#&t.

I've been vegan for 5+ years of my life, and have been vegetarian for about 11 years of my life.
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Old September 16 2013, 03:52 AM   #41
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
A lot of people at my work find it amusing to make fun of me...but I still see no reason to make fun of what others eat. If you do not mind me saying...I really do not give a s#&t.
Oh, I don't mind. I could do a whole lot worse.
Still, I agree. I think it's funny that my family is still trying to figure out what I eat, even when I tell them, "if it isn't meat, I can probably eat it."

Of course, then I get questions asking whether I can eat turkey, chicken, fish (I consider fish to be meat), shrimp, and so on. I've been asked if I consider bacon to be meat. Bless their hearts they try, but I don't really see what's so difficult about "no meat."
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Old September 16 2013, 09:02 AM   #42
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
^Yeah, my sisters couldn't be further from that. My little sister will patiently explain her reasoning if anyone asks, but even though being vegan is a very important part of her life and identity, she never makes it the topic of conversation, never pushes it upon others, and I've never felt judged by her or any of her (massive group) of vegan friends. (She spends a lot of time socializing on vegan message boards and even met her boyfriend through one.)

I don't really see veganism as being extreme, in fact, it's pretty reasonable and more consistent than vegetarianism, I think. You have one simple premise: don't exploit animals. Don't use any product made by or from animals. Easy peasy. The only time I ever got into any kind of debate with my sister over her veganism was when I argued that it is a privileged choice, that some people cannot live without using animals in some way or another. I eventually convinced her of the truth of this, and peace was restored.

I know there are vegans of the fanatical and arrogant type you've encountered, but through my sister I've met a huge number, and none of them have ever been like that to me.
So that means your sis isn't terribly offended by the bracelet I gave you then? At least not openly so.
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Old September 16 2013, 04:16 PM   #43
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Personally each to their own. The "sanctity of life" argument's never held for me, because plants are alive too.
And have been proven to scream and feel their own equivalent of pain, grown in large amounts just for us to kill, cut up and eat.

But because we don't see eyes, expressions or sounds of pain, blood or other similar traits we can empathise with as mammals, we ignore it even more.
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Old September 16 2013, 09:03 PM   #44
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Emher wrote: View Post

So that means your sis isn't terribly offended by the bracelet I gave you then? At least not openly so.
I'm wearing it right now!
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Old September 16 2013, 09:37 PM   #45
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Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Good to hear! Still fits? My mom said they apparently stretch a bit. And then she gave me an intricate description of how to fix it in case the strap breaks Oh and I didn't remember it at the time, but the metal on it is not silver but tin, since tin was a metal much more commonly used by the Same peop- oh dear I've hijacked the thread, haven't I?
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