RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,672
Posts: 5,212,636
Members: 24,198
Currently online: 613
Newest member: Bradmark


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 15 2013, 01:10 PM   #16
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
Taste is a compelling reason for me to eat meat and it always over-rides most of my guilt.
I love meat. I just haven't eaten it for 29 years, because it's wrong.
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 03:26 PM   #17
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

^ It's not wrong.

And pardon me if I can't seem to find any give-a-crap over what Morrissey or PETA think.
__________________
Taysiders in Space. In amungst ye!

"Set phasers tae malky!"

Last edited by Mr. Laser Beam; September 15 2013 at 03:40 PM.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 03:50 PM   #18
bbailey861
Admiral
 
bbailey861's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, ON
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Some might claim that by eating meat, we create demand for it, and therefore encourage animal killing. I say, nay-nay.
I read this and had visions of John Pinette.
bbailey861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 05:45 PM   #19
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ It's not wrong.

And pardon me if I can't seem to find any give-a-crap over what Morrissey or PETA think.
Eating meat for survival is OK - it's part of the natural order.

Eating meat because you like it is killing for pleasure. That's wrong.
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 06:34 PM   #20
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Eating meat because you like it is killing for pleasure. That's wrong.
No on both counts. The consumer is not the one who killed the animal, they just eat the finished product. (You want to blame someone? Try the butcher, or whoever runs the meatpacking plants.) It's not the consumer's problem. The animal's already dead by the time it gets to them. Our hands are clean, as it were.

And even if it is killing for pleasure, so what? Like I said, we humans are at the top of the food chain. Animals are put on this planet FOR our pleasure. That sounds harsh, I know, but remember what I said - it's the order of things. Those animals higher on the food chain kill those who are lower, for food (and you better believe they enjoy it, too). It's a definite hierarchy, top to bottom. It's just how it IS.

And like I also said, it doesn't mean we should ABUSE animals or deliberately make them suffer. No one is suggesting that. Killing and eating an animal is not abuse. It's part of all life. It's just what we do. It's what ALL life forms do.

@bbailey: Yes, that was an intentional Pinette reference.
__________________
Taysiders in Space. In amungst ye!

"Set phasers tae malky!"

Last edited by Mr. Laser Beam; September 15 2013 at 06:44 PM.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 06:50 PM   #21
J. Allen
Squeaky Clean
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Some might claim that by eating meat, we create demand for it, and therefore encourage animal killing. I say, nay-nay.
I read this and had visions of John Pinette.
Oh, gods, I love John Pinette. Is he not the most adorable person ever?

I've watched both of his specials on Netflix, and he never fails to crack me up.
__________________
:: :: ::
Visit Brony Kingdom, where all of your wildest dreams will come true.
:: :: ::

-= All fantasy teaches me is that reality sucks. =-
J. Allen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 06:54 PM   #22
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

YOU BEEN HERE FOUR HOUR!!!!
__________________
Taysiders in Space. In amungst ye!

"Set phasers tae malky!"
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 07:08 PM   #23
Locutus of Bored
No Solicitors!
 
Locutus of Bored's Avatar
 
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

I always love when people get so defensive about vegetarians and vegans as if there's any possibility of them forcing you not to eat meat any time in the near future. MLB has to relentlessly beat their philosophy into the ground in every second post like he thinks the "meat is murder" stormtroopers could come kicking down his door at any moment, even though no one is pushing anything on him. I feel like asking him to point to the spot on the cucumber where the vegetarian touched him.

Yeah, some of the more fanatical ones who criticize or attack people who eat meat can be obnoxious, just as zealots of any type can be, but the people who go over the top deriding vegetarians and vegans in general are just as irritating. They're not a threat to your way of life. They're a mild nuisance, at worst, and have no chance of denying you your right to eat bacon anytime soon. Relax.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Last edited by Locutus of Bored; September 15 2013 at 07:25 PM.
Locutus of Bored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 07:31 PM   #24
J. Allen
Squeaky Clean
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
YOU BEEN HERE FOUR HOUR!!!!
I swear, I could listen to him talk about food all day. The man loves his food.

"They have a show called 'Cake Boss'. This man is the BOSS of cake! You are the boss of cake?! I did not know you could arbitrarily make yourself the boss of a food!"

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I always love when people get so defensive about vegetarians and vegans as if there's any possibility of them forcing you not to eat meat any time in the near future. MLB has to relentlessly beat their philosophy into the ground in every second post like he thinks the "meat is murder" stormtroopers could come kicking down his door at any moment, even though no one is pushing anything on him. I feel like asking him to point to the spot on the cucumber where the vegetarian touched him.

Yeah, some of the more fanatical ones who criticize or attack people who eat meat can be obnoxious, just as zealots of any type can be, but the people who go over the top deriding vegetarians and vegans in general are just as irritating. They're not a threat to your way of life. They're a mild nuisance, at worst, and have no chance of denying you your right to eat bacon anytime soon. Relax.
True. I have the opposite problem, myself. When I tell people I'm vegetarian (as in, we're having a cookout, do you want cheese on your burger?), they act like I'm the survivor of a terrible train wreck or something, followed up by the inevitable, "can you have chicken?"

Still, most people don't seem to have a problem with it (though it makes a few self-conscious, and I have to tell them I'm not some kind of judgmental person. Eat meat if you like it!), but there are always the ones who, upon hearing I'm a vegetarian, will say "Yeah? Well I love meat," in such a way as to dare me to challenge them on their bacon supremacy.

My response is just, "Well... okay."
__________________
:: :: ::
Visit Brony Kingdom, where all of your wildest dreams will come true.
:: :: ::

-= All fantasy teaches me is that reality sucks. =-
J. Allen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 08:43 PM   #25
scotpens
Vice Admiral
 
scotpens's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Eating meat because you like it is killing for pleasure. That's wrong.
No on both counts. The consumer is not the one who killed the animal, they just eat the finished product. (You want to blame someone? Try the butcher, or whoever runs the meatpacking plants.)
If you're going to blame someone, blame our hominid ancestors who began hunting animals and eating meat four million years ago.

Besides, you know who was a vegetarian? HITLER!
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
scotpens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 08:52 PM   #26
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Eating meat because you like it is killing for pleasure. That's wrong.
No on both counts. The consumer is not the one who killed the animal, they just eat the finished product. (You want to blame someone? Try the butcher, or whoever runs the meatpacking plants.) It's not the consumer's problem. The animal's already dead by the time it gets to them. Our hands are clean, as it were.
You are in effect paying someone to do it for you - you still have responsibility.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
And even if it is killing for pleasure, so what? Like I said, we humans are at the top of the food chain. Animals are put on this planet FOR our pleasure. That sounds harsh, I know, but remember what I said - it's the order of things. Those animals higher on the food chain kill those who are lower, for food (and you better believe they enjoy it, too). It's a definite hierarchy, top to bottom. It's just how it IS.
Nothing has been put here 'for our pleasure'. There is no divine right - we just evolved to be more intelligent.

We have also evolved empathy and compassion - why kill something when you don't need to ?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
And like I also said, it doesn't mean we should ABUSE animals or deliberately make them suffer. No one is suggesting that. Killing and eating an animal is not abuse. It's part of all life. It's just what we do. It's what ALL life forms do.
If we are to feed the coming generations we must move away from meat as a foodstuff as it wastes 90% of the crop - you only get around 10% of what you put in as animal feed out as meat.

I have no doubts that you do not wish to inflict suffering on animals, nor do I think you are some sort of monster. Most of my friends and family eat meat and they certainly aren't bad people. I do, however, think that they are so conditioned by the 'normality' of meat-eating that they don't really question it though.

I certainly didn't for many years, and as I said, I liked my meat...
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 08:55 PM   #27
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
That's wrong.
The deliciously, sauce covered, tasty kind of wrong. Man that pork burger I had for dinner might send me to hell, but what a fantastic way to get there.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 08:58 PM   #28
J. Allen
Squeaky Clean
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

To be fair, relayer1, we are omnivores. Our digestive system handles both plant and animal matter. It's not like most people are just killing animals out of spite. The fact that we can choose to abstain from eating animals and still function properly is a nice side effect of that, but eating meat isn't "wrong."

There are no moral quandaries to eating meat, only ethical ones, and the ethics I do see as part of the problem pertain more to waste and abuse than the act of consuming animal flesh.
__________________
:: :: ::
Visit Brony Kingdom, where all of your wildest dreams will come true.
:: :: ::

-= All fantasy teaches me is that reality sucks. =-
J. Allen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 08:59 PM   #29
Timelord Victorious
TARDIS Janitor
 
Timelord Victorious's Avatar
 
Location: Germany, Earth, the Solar System
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

Relayer1 wrote: View Post

Nothing has been put here 'for our pleasure'. There is no divine right - we just evolved to be more intelligent.

We have also evolved empathy and compassion - why kill something when you don't need to ?

If we are to feed the coming generations we must move away from meat as a foodstuff as it wastes 90% of the crop - you only get around 10% of what you put in as animal feed out as meat.

I have no doubts that you do not wish to inflict suffering on animals, nor do I think you are some sort of monster. Most of my friends and family eat meat and they certainly aren't bad people. I do, however, think that they are so conditioned by the 'normality' of meat-eating that they don't really question it though.

I certainly didn't for many years, and as I said, I liked my meat...
These are essentially the best arguments for not eating meat anymore.

Also, the only reason the meat industry is doing those horrid animal abuse and inhumane killing is because they want to produce meat for the high demand as cheaply as possible.
If the demand were less they wouldn't do it. So eating the animal is causing them indirectly to suffer and die.

As with all things, more education and awareness is needed to change peoples minds, not judgemental fanatism.
Timelord Victorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 09:03 PM   #30
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Vegetarians - you will ove this child

J. Allen wrote: View Post
To be fair, relayer1, we are omnivores. Our digestive system handles both plant and animal matter. It's not like most people are just killing animals out of spite. The fact that we can choose to abstain from eating animals and still function properly is a nice side effect of that, but eating meat isn't "wrong."

There are no moral quandaries to eating meat, only ethical ones, and the ethics I do see as part of the problem pertain more to waste and abuse than the act of consuming animal flesh.

As my Mother says, just because you can doesn't mean you should !

The fact that we can digest meat doesn't make it right. To be fair, in a survival situation I would eat meat without any hesitation. I just can't see the justification for killing when there is no need to.
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.